Ellis on one end, Von Oelhoffen on the nose(hes just as heavy as Robertson at a shade over 300 and has experience on the nose), and Robertson on the other end. Thats 900 pounds and a lot of pass rush ability across the front of the line. Thats the way I see the Jets playing this, and if so, thats something to be excited about I think. If anybody disagrees with the idea of Robertson as a 3-4 end, look at Richard Seymour. Hes a shade lighter than Robertson I think, but he came into the league as a 4-3 under tackle and moved out to end in the 3-4 and its done wonders for him. Im praying that this is what Mangini has in mind.
Honestly i am down with this front 3, Now we have to add a lb and we could have a solid front 7 again
alot of pass rush? Ellis had 2.5 sacks last year and his pass rush has never been a thing of beauty. He always gets held up once a tackle gets lower than him. The only time d-rob has even come close to sniff the backfield in his 4 years as a jet was the one time he went offsides and then went to tackle LT for a 3 yard loss. Other than that hes had about 4 sacks in 2 years. KVO- Is old slow and FATT prime elements that make up a LACK of a pass rush. If anything we actually gain some speed when we insert Bryan Thomas into the game. Thats saying alot. Also if the Fo thinks that Chatham or Hobson has the ability to get to the qb like a mcginest or joey porter they have a big surprise coming for them. Hobson has terrible footwoork and chatham hasnt proven to be anymore than a special teams player. We may have to move vilma to the outside just to get speed on the edge but that would be messing with the one proven strength of our defense. The ideal situation would be keeping abraham and using him as an olb/de hybrid which would really wreak havoc if he were rushing from the same side as an ellis or KVO. But once again we are jets fans and nothing ideal ever happens for us and no matter how dominating a front line that ellis, drob, Kvo, with a lb duo of abraham vilma hobson and chatham can be, it will never and i mean never come into fruitition considering abrahams demands.
We have no idea what Robertson is capable of at end. Comparing him to another player who went through the same thing does not mean every player can do it. Suggesting he play end is pretty much like seeing if Pouha can play center. Could work, but who the hell knows? Ellis has already proven he can't handle the end position in a 3-4 setup. Besides, he's abit light for the position, anyway. We have no idea what Oelhoffen can do at the NT spot either. When did he play the position before? I suppose he has the size, but he needs more than just that to do well there. I don't like the whole idea of experimenting new positions for vets. It may be fine to mold rookies into the mold, but I don't think it'll work too well with these old dogs. Who knows about Robertson, though...might be an interesting idea.
my bad, Kimo was a right DE in pitt, but i think this is a good move and now I dont think Abraham is as important.
Also, about the Seymour-Robertson comparison, Seymour is 6'6, 310. Robertson is 6'1, 320. Very different body composition. Robertson is more comparable to Wilfork than he is Seymour.
Maybe before the Casey Hampton era in 2000...He's been their DE for a long while, since 2001 I believe.
I'm not sure what you mean. Ellis has great 3-4 DE size (6'5, 285-290), and played in it his rookie year and had 8.5 sacks. I think he is a great fit as a 3-4 DE.
A few years ago Ellis was on pace to set a new sack record after like 8 games, then Abraham got hurt. Ellis can produce, and frankly 3-4 end is a more natural position for a guy like him than 4-3 end. Hes had enough great seasons and great games in his career that itd be foolish to write him off as a worthless player after one bad season. Again referencing two years ago, Robertson played near a pro bowl level when he had Ferguson, a competent nose tackle, lined up next to him. Didnt reach double digit sacks, but its pretty rare for a tackle to crack ten. Hes a young player, hes got a ton of athleticism, and hes moving into a new defense. And Chatham is an inside backer, not outside. I agree, keeping Abraham for that outside spot opposite Hobson would be a dream, Im really not sure why they dont want to, but Ive accepted it as a certainty that he wont be back. I agree, one way or another we have to find some speed at that outside backer spot. I dont want McGinest, hes still producing but hes old, and frankly until the last 3 years he was largely considered a bust of a player, I for one tend to think that on any team other than the one he just left, hell go back to being ordinary. Id rather find somebody new. 10Pennington10, theres definetely a chance that Robertson could go to the nose, but I dont think thatll be the case. Von Oelhoffen has a lot of experience playing the nose, hes a 300 pounder just like Robertson, and he doesnt have the natural athleticism that Robertson brings to the table on the edge. Without knowing Manginis plans its obviously impossible to say which way he wants to play it, but playing Robertson on the nose would be a waste of his abilities. Really the point of this thread was the size that wed have up front, along with the pass rush. Not a lot of teams can put 900 pounds of beef on that front line because the result would be a crappy pass rush, but with these three guys and some more speed at OLB I think weve got the makings of a solid front seven.
Donnie Henderson actually used Robertson at end quite a bit last year. In both the 3 man and 4 man line. So its not like hes never been on end before. I remember reading an article in the paper about it some time ago.
Didn't Donnie Henderson try to bring back the 3-4 scheme, only to have it quickly flop in his face? I remember the players even requesting to go back to the 4-3. Part of it was because Ellis couldn't hold his own at the spot. Besides, aren't 3-4 ends normally around 300 pounds and up?
I don't remember that, and if it did happen, I doubt it was Ellis' fault. Not all 3-4 ends are 300 pounds. Anywhere from 280-300, usually.
The gap between 280 and 300 isn't exactly a narrow range. Out of the 3-4 defenses I can think of (Patsies, Browns, Chargers, Texans, and Steelers), the starting DEs were all 295 pounds and up (I would say 305 is the average). Sure, it's not out of the question that Ellis could gain some weight, but can he do it without losing speed? I vaguely remember Cottrell wanting to beef up Ellis, but I forgot how that turned out.
While we're on the subject of the front 3, where does Bryan Thomas fit into all of this? I doubt he has the size and power to be a 3-4 end, and trying him at LB could be a bad idea for an experiment. Is he essentially useless to us now? I wonder how Sione Pouha is progressing as well. Could be possibly be given a shot at the NT position? So far, there's no one else on the roster that can be considered as a true NT.
