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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BleedJetsGreen1981, Jan 9, 2023.
Let’s call Andrew Luck up and see if he will return to football for a few years
Fair enough. But as far as a single season performance in the post SB III era goes, Testaverde's was the best. And prior to that, he was a pretty much a scrub.
I'm not guaranteeing we will. I do think there is a possibility given good coaching and the right scheme, but I admit even with that the odds are against it.
However, I didn't say Zach = Lamar. I said that they share similar tendencies for which Zach has been crucified, while they're overlooked in Jackson, mainly because Lamar has successfully masked them with his great running ability, and the Ravens built an offense that maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. What if the Jets did that for Wilson? Yes, maybe he'd still struggle and ultimately fail, but they wouldn't have given up 2-3 1sts + a few more picks and be on the books for $250-300M.
Lamar is doing those similar things on check downs, but he has the ability to take over the game at any point. Zach doesn't. That's the massive difference.
Lamar is a top 10 QB in this league, is only 26 with a ton of room to grow, an a former MVP. How much of the Ravens turning into this power run offense is hindering Lamar as a passer? For years people have said the Ravens need to get an outside presence to help him and they refuse to do it. The Ravens have also never had anyone as talented as Breece in the backfield or GW outside the numbers. Marquise Brown isn't really striking fear into anyone. Devin Duvernay? Demarcus Robinson? I don't know -- seems like they aren't really helping him whatsoever.
I keep reiterating this point -- people have screamed around here for months that if we got mediocre QB play we would have won 10 games. Maybe if we even got Mike White for 17 games we win 10 games(I don't even think Mike White is any good). If you add Lamar you are at the worst winning 10 games with the possibility to jump into that upper tier where the Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals sit. We aren't winning a Super Bowl with a Derek Carr or Jimmy G type QB. Now you put Lamar Jackson on this roster? Yeah, I think we are right there with those 3 teams.
I won't disagree with you about Lamar even though I think he is not a very good passer. The issue becomes a) the cost to acquire him and b) his injury history. For me personally, you can add c) the fact that he wouldn't suit up for a playoff game or even travel with the team. Total bitch move.
Zach Wilson couldn’t succeed in an offense that has continuously proven to make QBs successful. Guys like Nick Mullens and CJ Beathard looked better in SF than Wilson ever did with the Jets. That is the point. Shanahan’s style of offense is a fucking cheat code for QBs and Zach Wilson couldn’t do it. So yes, I think hitching any sort of future wagon to Zach Wilson is an absurd idea. His numbers are akin to those of Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. The guy STINKS. You stated that you think the Jets can get a Lamar Jackson type performance from Zach Wilson, if given the right system. Zach Wilson played in the easiest fucking offense for a QB in the league and put up similar numbers to some of the biggest QB busts of all time.
With that being said, I’m fine with Carr long term. I’m fine with Tannehill being the bridge for a developmental day 2 or 3 pick. I’m fine with trading 2 or 3 firsts and paying Lamar Jackson.
Delusions. Wilson couldn’t succeed in what is one of the most Qb friendly schemes in the league. The same scheme that made Nick Mullens and CJ Beathard look serviceable.
For sure. They are totally fair concerns. I have a different opinion on what I think his value is/how much I would be okay with giving up and how hurt he actually is this year. I can't see us walking into Arrow Head in the AFCCG or Divisional Round with Derek Carr or Jimmy G and go on to beat Patrick Mahomes. With Lamar, that is a real possibility IMO.
Totally agree about C though. RG3 reported last night or this morning (I can't recall when I heard it on the radio) that Lamar was "sick" which is why he didn't travel. Not sure I really believe that.
And now Jock the Big Cok Purdy
Again, not all offenses are well suited to all QBs.
And again, have I said that the Jets should "hitch their wagon" to Zach alone?
Your continued overreaction to the possibility that Wilson could succeed begs the question: Why? If the Jets think he can, and if they also hedge their bets by bringing in another QB to compete with him, why does that bother you so much?
Here's some things for you to think about:
The Jets are already on the hook for his rookie deal.
They've already admitted that offensive scheme - which you called "the most QB friendly" scheme - didn't work for any of the 4 QBs they had try to run it and have said they've not tied to it, and they're not committed to sticking with it.
Despite your strenuous assertions, Zach has shown flashes of his ability, and is therefore potentially capable of doing that more consistently. If this were not true, Douglas, Saleh, and Woody wouldn't be talking in terms of keeping him. Admittedly, this may just be smoke until they can unload him, IDK, but many thought their defense of Becton was smoke too, and then they proceeded to keep him. Bottom line is that none of us know what they really think, or what their plans for him are.
If the Jets - as expected - bring in an accomplished vet, he will likely be QB#1 at least to start the season. This means he'll get almost all the reps and attention while Zach will have to take whatever he can get, so he won't be sucking up a lot of resources away from anyone else.
All of these are rational assumptions, so again, why are you so terrified of him remaining on the team?
I don’t care if they’re on the hook for his rookie deal. Bury him on the depth chart so he’s inactive every week and let him work on his mechanics. That’s fine.
Do you think, that after this year, of benching Zach Wilson 2x, that Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh are going to hitch their last wagon to him?
If Wilson were to become half the QB that even Jimmy G is, let alone Lamar Jackson, it would be an unprecedented turnaround. Wilson just isn’t an NFL QB right now. The odds of him actually becoming a good one are 1% or less.
I’m done talking about Zach Wilson in a Lamar Jackson thread.
Mullens has thrown 21 int's in the 17 games he's started.
CJ Beathard has thrown 14 interceptions in the 12 games he stared and has a 2-10 record.
Mike White has a 75.4 career passer rating in this QB friendly system.
Lamar Jackson completes 65% of his passes in games, Wilson couldn't do that even if there wasn't a defense involved.
Lamar Jackson threw for 36 touchdowns in his MVP season. That alone would take Zach Wilson like 5 whole seasons worth of play
food for thought to counter some of the absurd takes here in this thread
The Jets beat Buffalo with mediocre at best QB play almost beat the again with MW. With Carr, they would have a huge upgrade in QB play.
I'd rather have a healthy Jimmy G than Lamar. QB's are paid to throw the football and I think Jimmy G does a much better job of it than Lamar. So many of Lamar's passes look like a Pop Warner kid threw it.
Nick Mullens had 25 touchdown passes to 22 INTs in 18 games with SF.
CJ Beathard had 18 touchdown passes and 13 INTs in 19 games with SF.
Zach Wilson has 15 touchdown passes and 18 INTs in 22 games with the Jets.
Let’s add completion percentage and Y/A. Mullens career completion percentage of 65.3%, Beathard career of 58.8%, Zach Wilson career of 54.5%. Mullens Y/A of 7.8, Beathard a Y/A of 6.9, Zach Wilson Y/A of 6.4.
You say Mullens and Beathard suck? They’re better than Zach Wilson. LMAO.
Zach Wilson fucking blows.
Zach Wilson’s numbers are right on par with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. The only reason this guy isn’t talked about like those two is because there’s a rookie pay scale now so first round picks don’t get a stupid amount of money. Wilson is one of the biggest busts in draft history!
I'm not arguing about Wilson not being shitty. I'm just saying the QB's you used aren't any good either. Slow your roll, bro.
Serviceable =/= Good. Never said Mullens and Beathard were good.
Guys like Derek Carr are good QBs, while guys like Mahomes and Allen are elite.
Guys like Mullens and Beathard are serviceable for a game or two before the wheels fall off.
Zach Wilson is worse than serviceable.
My comment that you quoted wasn’t directed at you, I just happened to reply to you to provide more context for @ColoradoContrails to maybe realize Zach Wilson is abysmal, but I’m clearly wasting my time and energy on that front.
Serviceable is being able to QB a team to beat the Bills and GB in GB. Serviceable is being able to engineer a 4th quarter comeback and a game winning drive against Pittsburgh. Wilson can be serviceable. Obviously serviceable is not what you are looking for in a starting QB.