Jets and Crowder negotiations

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NOVAJET, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    One more thing. If you are wrong? No pressure. Joe Douglas has 4 picks within the first 2 rounds come 2022 and just like 2020 and 2021; 2022's WR draft class is absolutely fully loaded again.

    If Denzel Mims flames out here in 2021? No worries because JD will 100% replace him in order to give both Elijah Moore and Corey Davis another running mate.
     
  2. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Probably why I was so confused. Lol
     
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  3. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    This was the quote you chose to flip out on:

    "This is a guy that was picked 5th overall, ahead of WRs like Smith-Shuster, Godwin, and Kenny Golladay. Tennessee overpaid him and roundly considered him a disappointment who wasn't worth the money they paid."

    Yes, Corey Davis is universally considered one of the notable top 5 busts of the last decade. This is not a secret or just my point of view. Its a known fact around the NFL and cherry picking stats wont change the fact that he wasn't worth his contract or draft position.

    BTW, Godwin made the pro bowl with Jameis Winston at QB, on a losing team, while Brady was still a Patriot. Godwin was picked 84th overall - not 5th overall. During this time Godwin made eight hundred thousand a season - while Davis made over six million.

    So yeah, Davis was a pretty big disappointment and the fact that JD signed him doesn't magically make him an all pro - no matter how many stats you cherry pick.

    I also said we are paying Davis #1 money when he wasn't a true #1. You admit yourself that we made him the 17th highest paid WR in football, all based off of one season, as a #2 wideout, on a run first team. This is a move GMs make when they are one player away from making a run, or when they are desperate. A rebuilding team doing this is a head scratcher. (again, the only justification for this is blocking).

    Look DWC, I get it. Your hyped and your sunnysiding. Fair enough. By season start I always end up sunnysiding. I'm just not ready to yet. Your going around the forum spouting the most over hyped takes on the offseason and its blinding you, and probably some others, from objectively evaluating our situation. The truth is we don't have a true #1 on our team ATM. Our receiver core is better, or at least that is the hope. But its way too soon to start suggesting its the best since forever. Here is what we actually have:

    Davis - a decent #2
    Crowder - a good slot guy
    Mims - hasn't done crap yet
    Moore - hasn't done crap yet
    Cole - a decent #2/3.

    I'm not going to go overboard on training camp or preseason heroes by anointing them top players in the league. I've seen enough of those evaporate once the real season starts to know better. I truly hope we do have a top receiving core this year. But I'm not calling it done, until its been done. We overpaid for Davis. Will he live up to it as a Jet? I hope so, and that's the best we as fans can do.
     
    #143 ouchy, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  4. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    You keep ignoring the facts how Tennessee ranked 31st, 31st and 30th throughout the previous 3 years in PASSING ATTEMPTS.

    And hold up. Did you just really claim Corey Davis is a top 5 NFL bust over the previous 10 years?!?!?

    I'm sorry but recording 173 receptions for 2,476 receiving yards and 11 TD receptions throughout the previous 3 years (2018-2019-2020) is hardly NFL bust status.

    He was considered a top 5 FA WR by every NFL expert out there and every NFL expert has him ranked as a top 20 WR heading into 2021...

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-32-best-wrs-entering-2021-nfl-season

    That's just one example but to consider him a top 5 bust? Are you kidding me?

    And you even had the nerve to say "it's not a secret" and "is a known fact around the NFL"?

    Please post me 5 articles from NFL experts calling him a bust (bet you can't lol).

    Top 5 bust over the past decade? Really?

    Sam Bradford #1 overall.
    Trent Richardson #3 overall.
    Justin Blackmon #5 overall.
    Barkevious Mingo #6 overall.
    Luke Joeckel #2 overall.
    Blake Bortles #3 overall.
    Kevin White #7 overall.
    Solomon Thomas #3 overall.
    Mitchell Trubisky #2 overall (backup QB).
    Sam Darnold #3 overall.
    Josh Rosen #10 overall.

    Etc. Etc.

    Corey Davis isn't even in the conversation of BUST Status because busts aren't considered as top 5 FAs at their respected positions, now are they?

    And recording 173 receptions for 2,476 Receiving yards and 11 TDs throughout the previous 3 seasons despite Tennessee ranking 31st, 31st and 30th in passing attempts is the complete opposite of a "bust".

    But since the whole Football world knows he's a top 5 bust etc I bet you can not find me 5 articles (by 5 credible NFL source's) calling him a BUST.
     
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  5. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Thankfully as opposed to years past we aren't depending on the player staying healthy because we have some really solid depth, if he keeps getting hurt then he's not going to be featured but if he does the guy is great at catching contested balls, which is good because he doesn't really get much separation. That type of skillset works a lot better when you're in single coverage.
     
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  6. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Davis had a great season and his skill set fits into this offense. (We did not overpay). Moore has not done crap because he is a rookie. You have blinders on if you have not seen the potential. thus far his game is transitioning well to the NFL. He has all makings of being a star, but you are right we have not seen it with pads on yet or against other teams.

    Mims- He needs to step up but Cole from all accounts has looked good and was a good receiver for the Jags

    Crowder is more than a decent slot guy

    Michael Carter seems like a decent receiver out of the backfield.

    TE- This is the biggest question mark in my mind. We need one of these guys to step-up.

    The point is we have may more talent than last season at WR, O-Line, RB and QB. You are worried we overpaid for Davis? You can always go root for and Jalen Smith.
     
  7. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    If Chris Godwin played within an offense that ranked 31st, 31st and 30th throughout the previous 3 years his Numbers would be absolute crap.

    But, he didn't.

    He played within offenses that have ranked

    Tampa Bay has ranked...
    4th in passing attempts (2018).
    4th in passing attempts (2019.
    6th in passing attempts (2020).

    Corey Davis (2020);
    65 Receptions for 984 receiving yards and 5 TD receptions with a 70.7% catch rate.

    vs.

    Chris Godwin (2020):
    65 Receptions for 840 receiving yards and 7 TD Receptions with a 77.4% catch rate.

    Put Chris Godwin on an Offense that ranked 30th in passing attempts lawhile blessing Corey Davis with Tom Brady, Mike Evans, Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette and within an Offensive Attack that ranked 6th in passing attempts; and you'd be singing a different tune.

    And Chris Godwin has never been TBs #1 WR. It's always been Mike Evans.

    Mike Evans:
    501 Targets.
    294 Receptions.
    4,688 Receiving yards.
    34 TD Receptions.
    (#1 WR facing #1 CBs and double teams).

    Vs.

    Chris Godwin (first 4 years):
    355 Targets.
    244 Receptions.
    3,540 Receiving yards.
    24 TD Receptions.
    (#2 WR facing softer coverages).

    (@ouchy your Corey Davis agenda absolutely sucks).
     
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  8. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I think this is all semantics. He’s not a bust but has clearly underperformed his draft position. Almost similar to Leonard Williams.
     
  9. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    Of course he's underperformed his draft status.

    Being stuck in a Derrick Henry run first offense that's ranked 31st, 31st and 30th throughout the previous 3 years in PASSING ATTEMPTS isn't a good fit for a WR like Corey Davis.

    Still to this day is the only NCAA WR who's ever recorded 300+ receptions, 5,000+ receiving yards and 50+ TD Receptions (before getting stuck in Tennessee).



    Zach Wilson and Mike LaFleur are going to absolutely love this dude; he's a freak.
     
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  10. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope we get what Leo gave to the Giants then
     
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  11. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Has nothing to do with pass attempts - he simply showed he’s not an elite top dog receiver, which a Top 5 pick should be. He showed great improvement once AJ Brown got there and he could beat single coverage. Keep in mind, I loved the signing and think he’ll be a great fit in this offense, but he operates better as WR2.
     
  12. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    After stating my hatred of misleading information I had to jump in. DFC stated Davis was the 20th highest paid WR in the NFL, not the 17th. The only way he becomes the 17th highest paid would be if no WR receives a decent contract between the 2021 and 2022 season. I find that highly unlikely.

    You mention Godwin having Jaimis throwing to him like it was a hinderance but a WR’s stats aren’t negatively affected by INTs. They’re only affected by yards and TDs which Jaimis had plenty of.

    Rookie contracts are based on their draft position. Stating them as two different things is misleading.

    You mention Davis was on a run first team last year; he’s on a run first team this year too.

    Watching Mimm’s tape you can see maybe some potential… I’m not a talent evaluator so idk…. But watching Moore’s tape is a whole other animal. He makes NCAAF corners look like high school kids.

    Moore is our #1 receiver; whether he’s lined up in the X,Y, slot, or backfield he is our #1 receiver. If Davis did well in a run first team as a #2 receiver in TN, I see no reason to think he wouldn’t do well here.

    I’m not psychic, I can only use past performances to speculate future results. There’s only one way to know how 2021 turns out and that’s to wait and watch.
     
  13. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is that, @ouchy accused me of twisting stats, but it was (actually) him as the one who misquoted and twisted statistics in order to fit his Corey Davis agenda.

    I stated how throughout the previous 3 years that Corey Davis has combined for...

    173 receptions for 2,476 receiving yards and 11 TD receptions.

    He twisted statistics and said Corey Davis only combined for...

    "142 catches for 1876 yards and 6 TDs".

    However? Throughout the previous 3 years? Corey Davis has CLEARLY recorded...

    173 receptions for 2,476 receiving yards and 11 TD Receptions.

    Yes. I hate when people post fake stats, too...
     
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  14. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Dude you twist stats and you misquote me - every friggin post.
     
  15. Losmeister

    Losmeister Well-Known Member

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    ignore feature means you dont read garbage
     
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  16. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Leonard Williams wasn't drafted top 5, and he did have a pro bowl season in year 2 before changing schemes and getting fat. Pro bowls go a long ways toward what a player gets paid.
     
  17. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    DWC wrote:

    "2021 = 20th highest paid WR.
    2022 = 17th highest paid WR.
    2023 = 15th highest paid WR.

    Average = 17th highest paid WR."



    He is guaranteed 10 million this season and 15 million next season, with 27 million guaranteed overall. Maybe by next season he will have dropped to 20th or lower?

    Lets remember Davis' contract is sandwiched between refusing to guarantee Robbie 10 million, and insisting Crowder take a pay cut from 10 million to 5 million - none of it guaranteed. If we didn't wait so long and put Crowder in a tough spot, and he would have walked, it would have been a major bonehead move. Yet we guaranteed the #2 WR Davis 27 million to be a #1 WR.
     
    #157 ouchy, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  18. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    Nah man I actually like @ouchy as a poster and as a Jets fan +

    I'm looking forward to Elijah Moore absolutely EMBARRASSING his little 110lb DeVonta Smith

    Who will become exposed on an NFL level once no longer playing within a fully loaded Mac Jones (1st round), Najee Harris (1st round), Jaylen Waddle (1st round), Alex Leatherwood (1st round) Landon Dickerson (early 2nd diuy) + John Metchie III ( guaranteed 2022 1st round pick) and Evan Neal (guaranteed top 10 2022 lottery pick) type of Alabama Offense.

    But yet Elijah Moore with damn near 0 help outside of his QB in Matt Corral ranked #2 in the Nation in both Receptions and Receiving yards (despite only playing in 8 games).

    It's going to be fun and I'm going to have a blast with it.

    + If I ignored everyone who disagreed with Football 101 talk? I'd be left to talk to myself (kind of like I do in my Rays thread lol).
     
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  19. DefenseWinsChampionships

    DefenseWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    To be fair?

    To be fair...

    Corey Davis lined up @ WR for 3 consecutive years for a Tennessee Offense that ranked 31st (2018), 31st (2019) and 30th (2020) in PASSING ATTEMPTS.



    [​IMG]
     
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  20. NYGANGGREEN

    NYGANGGREEN Well-Known Member

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    I would keep saying it DWC I dont think he understands that part. He played in literally the most run heavy offense with not many passing chances they were damn near dead last yet he had decent numbers. If he was in a top lets say 15 Offense imagine what he would of produced.
     

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