Just look at the tape of what they did in college and go off of that. I'm tried of all the workout warriors the Jets have drafted in recent years. We need players not guys that look good in their skivvies running around cones and such.
Workout Warriors that come to mind; Tony Mandarich (for those like me - old enough to remember. Probably the first workout warrior). Mike Mamula (he of Boston College fame). Vernon Gholston (how can we forget). Can even make an argument for Jamarcus Russell here (all he really did was throw 60 yrds from his knees).
Combine is also where guys like JPP, Von Miller and others saw their stock rise. Ignoring the combine all together is as dumb as basing everything off it.
The Combine is important and it's only part of the process of gathering info on players. IMO, the critcal part of the Combine is the interviews. I 've always believed what's between your ears is the starting point. I don't care what your 40 time is if you're a moron and get into trouble.
^this ^ and this. Its a valuable tool. Not the only one teams have but a very important one none the less. GM's also spend time talking to agents of players. Leagaly those of thier own to tyr to sign them before FA hits, and not so legaly those of players about to hit free agency. The NFL basicly looks the other way at this and its rampant there. The combine is part show case and part meeting place.
I remember someone saying the combine is good for 3 things: 1) Interviews 2) Medical evaluation 3) Go back and look at the tape of players that excel in it (the combine). Couldn't agree more...
I'm trying to figure out what workout warriors the Jets have drafted recently? Can't think of any. And before someone brings up Gholston, the guy led the nation in sacks. I and many others didn't like him at the time but the story goes that Mangini fell in love watching tapes of his games.
For every JPP there's a D-Rob to screw us. I really think the combine is counter-productive for any team that does not already have a first class scouting department and unnecessary for the teams that do. The Steelers got the best players on an annual basis back when only a handful of teams including themselves used BLESTO. They still get the best players when everything is said and done now that everybody uses the combine to aggregate results. I think they suckered people into the format and then relied on what they knew they had and most teams did not: good talent evaluators and scouts and a sound strategic plan for building the talent base. Going to the combine with the crew and philosophy the Jets have is just asking to buy a bridge.
I think you have a myopic view of the Combine. While I agree, with you, that drafting a player on just evaluating their superior workout at the Combine is shortsighted. The Combine isn't just about the 40 time & reps in the weight room. The Combine is one of the tools to gather info and smart teams look at the total package.....from interviews, medical info, measurements (height & weight), wonderlic & on-field performance. Any team not attending the Combine would be doing a disservice to their franchise.
I look at the Steelers drafts over the past 5 years and outside of hitting real nice in rounds 1 & 2 in '07 I don't see anything really special. The only other thing that really stands out is that they don't seem to miss in the first round. What is so special about what the Steelers are doing?
I think the way to sum up the Steelers philosophy is: take the best player available on your pick, don't double-vision somebody into a role they haven't already proven they can handle, plan ahead when your key contributors are aging and pick up BPA's who can step in in 2 or 3 years and fill the role. The key on the first round picks, and it is a huge key over the years for the Steelers, is not to reach for need. Always get a solid player even if you already have the position covered because the nature of NFL football is that positions come uncovered all the time.
Those all sound like great parts of a draft philosophy, but I don't see how going to a combine or not going to a combine changes those thoughts.
I think for many teams the combine is a good thing. It allows them to further refine their opinions of the top players and also to see how people drop in the estimation of their peers. I think the combine is a disastrous event for the Jets because it highlights all the things that are wrong with their scouting, talent evaluation and general philosophical view of talent acquisition. If somebody is a rapid riser at the combine, like Santana Moss in 2001 or D-Rob in 2003 or Vernon Gholston in 2008 the odds are pretty good the Jets will get stuck with them, often at a prohibitive cost. If somebody is falling at the combine, like Derrick Strait in 2003 or Kellen Clemens in 2006 or Shonn Greene in 2009 the Jets are still going to get stuck with them and in the case of Shonn Greene again at a prohibitive cost. I guess what I'm saying overall is that the Jets scouting and talent acquisition processes are not good enough at this point to make participating in the combine a plus. All the Jets presence does there is fuel the trade-ups and the futile picks that don't fall in that category. For the Jets the combine is a black hole. They'd be better off skipping it for a year and just doing their own interviews at pro days.
Come on now, Br4dw4y, how are they going to find the guy with the biggest bubble if they don't go to the combine?
Contrary to popular opinion, Gholston was a top pick prior to the combine. The combine only solidified his position. Your thoughts on players falling at the combine and still ending up with the Jets makes no sense to me. You don't want the Jets to participate in the combine, but you want them to avoid players that are falling because of the combine? What? The Jets have a nice young core of good character players in D'Brick, Mangold, Harris, Sanchez and I'll add Revis for his work ethic that they've drafted over the past several years. A couple of those guys will likely land in the HOF when it's all said and done. I'm guessing the scouting department found out some good information about those guys at the combine. Repeatedly trading up and trading away draft picks is stupid, I absolutely agree.
If so, he must not have watched the tape of the National Championship game where Gholston was practically invisible and when he was visible, looked in over his head.
The Eagles have said they will not move any players up or down significantly based on the combine. I hope the jets will employ the same strategy.
Personally I think its much more acceptable to move a guy down based on the combine, then it is to move a guy up based on it. If you feel that an OLB isnt gonna have the strength to take on NFL size lineman, or a safety wont have the speed to keep up with real guys, then odds are its not gonna work too well. Look what happened to Donovan Warren. The guy was supposed to be this badass, his combine speed sucked, he went undrafted and hes buried on someones depth chart without a career tackle
