How many years does JD get?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Cman65, Oct 14, 2020.

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How many years does JD get to show progress?

  1. 2 more years

    39 vote(s)
    42.4%
  2. 3 more years

    34 vote(s)
    37.0%
  3. 6 more years

    7 vote(s)
    7.6%
  4. 10 more years (5 year contract extension)

    6 vote(s)
    6.5%
  5. Forever....

    7 vote(s)
    7.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Jets4eva9011

    Jets4eva9011 Well-Known Member

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    Okay? Even so, JD isn't to blame for Shell. He was gone in early 2020. Plus, Shell has the benefit of having Russel Wilson behind him.

    It's not a matter of thinking JD is G.O.D - but that most of us realize a year and a half (this year being a COVID one) is way too early to judge a GM, especially when he's new and hasn't been the total disaster you claim he has been. Total hyperbole on your part.

    And funny, most of us can see what JD is trying to do, only a select few like you claim otherwise. I love how you know for a fact he has no master plan (which isn't really a master plan, just common sense in terms of building a team).

    We've already told you what he's done to give him more time. Namely hitting on his 1st draft, which is something his two previous predecessors failed to do combined. JD is going to get at least 2 more years to do his thing, as he should (given his 6-year contract as well).

    As I said, JD will be judged on the new QB he gets here and the coach he picks, plus the next 2 drafts. Tough if you don't like it.

    Gase will be gone, however. That will automatically improve the team next season.
     
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  2. JohnnyP123456

    JohnnyP123456 Well-Known Member

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    That some folks are blaming our record this season on JD and not Gase is crazy to me.
     
  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    He gets this off-season and next off-season for me before I really start to question whether we should start another GM hunt. NFL rebuilds aren't like the MLB or NHL. They're not five year plans. They're 2-3 year plans.

    He gets some more time than normal because of the disaster he walked in to. But he's made a couple missteps early on and people acting like he's a savior because the draft looks OK are out of their mind.

    Just because Davis and some other guys like Bryce Hall and what not are playing and shown some encouraging things doesn't mean they're playing well. We lost 40-3 last week. Virtually no one plays well in a 40-3 loss.
     
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  4. Jets_Grinch

    Jets_Grinch Well-Known Member

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    If the Jets aren't competing for the playoffs and the division in 2022 then Douglas's days are numbered. Especially if we get Lawrence. Thing is I see the Jets putting teams on notice next year.
     
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  5. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Yup...the Raiders, Patriots games were winnable. Again, a really good coach would have won at least one of those, maybe two. Does anyone REALLY think that coaches like Reid, Payton, Belichick, McVay, etc would be 0-13 with this exact team?

    NO FUCKING WAY

    so yeah, I think 99% of this board agrees that Gase is part of the problem, not the solution.

    so on to JD...

    there have been a lot of great posts here on this. I tend to be in the pro-JD camp, but I also don’t think he has been perfect. Robby is to me the most glaring fail so far. He should have been kept. This is a problem that has been part of our Jets for decades....we have historically drafted very poorly, but we’ve also way too often failed to keep our few draft picks that have been great, and we always have the excuse of “well...they wanted too much money”, or “well...they were malcontents”, or some other bullshit. You can go back to Riggins, Keyshawn, John Abraham, Revis, now Adams....it’s a problem. You should keep your good players. We don’t.

    On a side note, It was funny watching Adams drop a pick that hit his hands....that’s what he is...not a ball hawk...he’s destructive for sure, but for us at this stage, we can’t afford to make a non ball hawking safety the highest paid in the league. And we got a great package for him, so I’m not complaining about this decision, but the overall trend is real and it’s a problem.

    So yeah, JD has made some mistakes. Some of his free agent signings have been no better than the players they replaced. Fant has been ok....I don’t see him as a huge upgrade over Shell...not sure how their salaries compare. The interior OL is very bad still despite the turnover. Perriman has looked ok when healthy but has had a hard time staying healthy, which should not have been a surprise based on his history. On to the draft, i see it as a pretty good draft...not so much a GREAT draft. Becton for sure is a home run. I think Mims has shown he can be good. But both have had injury concerns, though since they didn’t have that history in college I can’t really blame JD for that. Outside of them and the punter, I don’t see a lot to be super excited about...but not yet writing them off. Davis is a fast guy for sure but he hasn’t made game changing plays. Perine did nothing to impress. Zuniga has been hurt but I can’t remember his name being called once in a game. Huff has made some pressures...ok...but at some point pressures need to turn into sacks. Hall has shown a bit, but also hasn’t made great plays either. So I’d say we got three really good players at positions of need and some potentials. Huff, Hall, Davis have potential, and if a couple of them pan out and become contributors, then this draft looks much better. But for now, I’d give this draft a B or B+. Still worlds better than the shit Idzik and Mac gave us.

    And I do think JD is worlds better than Idzik and Mac. Idzik was one of the worst talent evaluators I’ve ever seen at the GM position. Period. Hard stop. I think we’re all agreed here. He was flat out disgusting.

    Mac was a little better based on his scouting background, and at least he found good players with some of his top picks in Adams, Williams, Maye, though a case can be made that he simply followed consensus in drafting L Williams, Adams, and Q Williams too. But his problem was strategic. He had NO CLUE and no vision about how to build a team. He intentionally ignored OL. He drafted a DT high when he already had a highly drafted DT. He passed on two great QB prospects in Watson and Mahomes because he had faith in Hack, a player who literally could not see the field on a bad team. Just brutal....some of his picks were good players in a vacuum but they were pretty much all absolutely the wrong players for our team, regardless of how good they were as individual players.

    So I think JD is smart enough to see that last year was a facade, not a buildable base. The 7-9 record was a house of cards. So I think, looking at his holdout for a 6 year deal and his FA signings which were all short term stopgap, that he knew this was a dumpster fire created by the past two GMs and their horrendous drafting. Those players should be the core of our team today, yet most are no longer on the team and many are not even in the league. I’m ok with the “burn it to the ground” approach, in a year where there is a generational QB in the draft. Once you come to the conclusion that Darnold is not the answer, then this is what needed to be done. Which of course hints at the thought that JD had already come to that conclusion before this past offseason.... it very different than what the Colts did when Luck was there...the suck for Luck was real. I in no way believe that Curtis Painter was the best QB that Bill Polian could find...he was their ticket to the worst record in the league. This is what JD is doing.

    in any case, I think it’s too early to judge...and we are not in the room with him to hear what he REALLY thinks. The outward signs point to the tearing it down intentionally process, but we can’t know for sure. But clearly, if he was trying to build up, he could have made different choices.

    so either this was intentional and we will see improvement over the next two years, or he is just as clueless as Idzik and Mac. I think it’s the former not the latter, but that is a hope really.

    the part that does scare me, though, I won’t believe Gase is gone until he really is let go. I fully 100% believe the Johnsons are stupid enough to keep him.
     
    #245 Jets79, Dec 14, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  6. hornblower

    hornblower Well-Known Member

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    Who cares who is to blame? The best coach in the world could not win with this talent. They have the weakest roster in the NFL but they have high and many draft choices and cap room in a year when most teams have little because the league made less money. Three more weeks and this is over. The rebuild starts and it's in good hands.
     
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  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? You think this draft was just OK with Becton, Mims and Mann, and the others still having potential? If so, I think your expectations are unrealistic.

    It's pretty clear to me that Douglas does have a plan and a vision. He wouldn't be so respected around the NFL and wouldn't have worked for Ozzie Newsome for so long if he wasn't intelligent, hadn't learned from Ozzie, and developed his thinking and planning skills. One often has to take a step back before one can go forward. To assume that Douglas doesn't know what he's doing and stupidly just got rid of good players and replaced them with worse players for no reason is ridiculous. Adams forced his hand. Anderson was a mistake, but that could have been forced by Gase. Bell was done and wasn't being used by Gase. Once he realized the season was toast, yes he got what he could for some players that could bring us some draft capital, and would force Gase to start playing some of the younger players so he could see what we have in them.

    I really think that some of you have been Jets fans for too long and allowed it to get to you and your perspectives. Douglas is the one, bright shining ray of hope that we have, not just a little glint. Instead it seems like 2/3 of the board is just looking for a reason to get rid of him and wants him to fail. I honestly think that some posters don't want him to succeed. They'd rather the Jets stay lousy, so they can stay miserable. I think they fear success. I hope that you're not among them. You're too good a poster. Don't let all the negativity here draft you down and swing you over to the dark side.
     
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  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe for a minute that JD will vouch for Gase. In fact, I believe that he wants him gone, and never really wanted to work with him to begin with. Just because they worked together, doesn't mean that they were good friends. The sportswriter that conjectured that they were was wrong, and that led me astray until I recently read that Gase drove to Douglas' house and begged him to take the job, and Douglas reluctantly agreed once the Jets upped the number of years and money. Douglas took a risk asking for more years. I believe that he knew that he needed them because he'd probably be stuck with Gase for at least a couple of them. If Douglas is so stupid that he would think that Gase deserves more time, I don't think he would have lasted with the Ravens as long as he did or that the would be so respected around the NFL.
     
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  9. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Active Member

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    w

    Bills just beat the Steelers. We were not beating them in 4 qtrs of football. You guys are so delusional. JD hasn't found a reliable kicker in two offseasons..TWO. Don't tell me that's Gase too.
     
  10. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I also read the same article, regarding Douglas and he not interested in taking the job and Gase begging him to take it.

    Scary that Douglas wanted no part of Jets, hope you are right and Gase is fired, Johnsons scare me with their stupidity.
     
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  11. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Do you want him to make one out of plasticine and breathe life into it?

    Any kicker sitting about in FA right now is sitting in FA for a reason and that reason is the fact they are either inconsistent, shit or both.

    Of all the things to have a dig about and you pick the kicker problem lol
     
  12. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Well-Known Member

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    The Bills beat the Steelers this week but if you think that Bills team was the same one that only beat the Jets by 8, then it would appear that we are at an impasse.

    You asked where the winnable games were, I gave you some. I never said they definitely would have or should have beat the Bills that week but if you don't think being up 10 halfway through the 2nd quarter should be considered a winnable game for any NFL team, then I believe we find ourselves at another impasse.

    Don't deflect the narrative to how JD hasn't found a kicker. Scott Mason on the "Play Like a Jet" podcast said it best on their episode this morning, "If we had Jason Myers yesterday we would've lost by 4 touchdowns instead on 5". Again, JD has absolutely made some missteps so far, that is without question, but if you're really digging all the way down to how he hasn't found a kicker then you've dug yourself quite a hole. Good luck getting out.
     
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  13. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    Of course, the other side is that too many Jets fans take a glint of light and turn it into a beacon. I think we all see beacons in slightly different places to be honest and there's just as much tendency to leap on any hint of talent as though it is the real deal as there is to find negatives in every situation on here. I try to maintain a balanced and objective view - but they sure make it hard sometimes!

    As for the draft it certainly wasn't bad, which makes it world beating for the Jets. But isn't every draft just okay in year 1? I don't think it can be much better at this stage, but it can be a total failure by now. Becton looks the real deal, but he has seemed to struggle a little more in the past two weeks to me. Injury, rookie season wear down or just a few weaknesses being exposed? We will have to wait and see. Mims has done well, for a rookie. He's exactly where you want him to be at this stage, but he's still got a way to go before he gets there and until he does it is only potential or promise. He's not a good starter yet. I have hope he gets there, but so many don't kick on. And, yes, that is Jets Fan Syndrome wearing me down probably. I have zero expectations from a drafted Jets WR. I mean, Enunwa and Kerley may be the best 2 the Jets have drafted in it seems forever. Mann is a punter. Let's be honest, it is necessary but hardly a fundamental building block. And I haven't really seen him quite as positively as the majority on here to date. The others are a degree of promise and potential but no real delivery yet. That's okay by the way, they're rookies. I don't (unlike some) expect All Pros in year 1 or 2. Hopefully one or two will become solid contributors and that will make it a good draft. But it still has the potential to be relatively poor as well if no one makes a leap. One NFL adage I do believe is fundamentally correct is that it takes 3 years to truly judge a draft class.

    And anyway, frankly, having sat through every play of that abomination on Sunday, which finished past midnight here, I deserve a bit doom and gloom. (I will admit to having the Colts game on the big screen at the same time though. How I wish the Jets had hired Reich).

    Edit: sorry, this was meant to be a short reply but it kept growing!
     
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  14. BrooklynJetsFan

    BrooklynJetsFan Active Member

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    Exactly man. Just saying people on this board acting like JD deserves the job. You’re getting paid millllllions in NYC. This is a show-me town. No one has built a team in this town ever - except for the Yanks. And nothing lately.

    Teams win here...through fluke late season runs. Giants did it. Jets almost did it.

    JD doesn’t have the vision to do it or hasn’t shown it. It takes a certain type of ingenuity to win big in NYC...while at the mercy of the media.
     
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  15. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    Sounds fair. I'm hopeful that Joe will turn this around, but won't anoint him just yet. I see a draft class with multiple contributors and the potential for three starters excluding Mann. Becton, Mims, and Hall are the three BTW. I wasn't a fan of the Morgan pick and Perine wasn't the RB I wanted. We'll see how it turns out. As you said, the class needs 3 years to judge.
     
  16. apjbfc

    apjbfc Well-Known Member

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    Please show us how you would have won the jets a play off game this season.

    You have last season's roster and draft picks.

    Go.....

    Sent from my M2007J20CG using Tapatalk
     
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  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    First, there's no need to apologize for the length of your reply or for anything. Some things just cannot be said in one or two sentences. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

    Second, I agree that if someone automatically is a "homer" or "darksider" on every player, coach, or move the team makes without regard to the circumstances and the facts, then that's bad. I haven't seen too many homers around here lately, but have seen a TON of darksiders. As I've said, given both the Jets' history and the Johnsons, I can understand why so many would be so pessimistic or be in the "darksider" camp. Certainly since Adams forced his way out, Sam showed that he has regressed, and we realized that we were stuck with Gase for this whole season, we've had little or no hope.

    IMO, we do have reason to have some solid hope...Douglas. A solid competent GM is much more important than almost any player. A very good or great GM is more important than any player. Well, I think Douglas is going to be a very good GM at the very least, and could easily become a great GM. He certainly has the background.

    Aside from Parcells, the Johnsons have never made as good a hire as they have with Douglas. Outside of Parcells, they've never before hired someone who was so respected in league circles. Things turned around under Parcells, and that imo should give hope that things are going to turn around this time too. Douglas wasn't recommended by Charlie Casserly or some head-hunting firm. He didn't get his experience working for the Jaguars or Chargers or Dolphins or Lions, but with the Ravens, one of top organizations in the NFL and one of the best GMs in NFL history. That doesn't mean that Douglas will be a slam dunk success, but it should give at least some hope to the fanbase, and no one should even be thinking of firing Douglas, much less talking about it.

    No every draft isn't OK in year 1. I think that most years recently, we haven't gotten a lot of contributions from our draft class their rookie season, and more than a few never at all. This year, we've gotten great play from Becton from day one. He has proved all his naysayers wrong (or should have). When is the last time the Jets drafted any player whom the "experts" in the media began immediately talking about having the potential to be an all-time great, and now with the season almost over, are still speaking of him in those terms? Of course he has things to learn and improve upon. Every single player in the NFL does, no matter how good they are. That doesn't diminish him or his play. I watched a lot of film on Mims at Baylor, and read a lot about him. I've seen him play for the Jets the last few weeks. I feel like I know his character and the type of player he is and will be. I have total confidence that he's going to develop into a topnotch player in the NFL. I'm truly sorry that you can't have the same excitement and optimism as I, but I understand.

    Now, if we can get Lawrence, then we'll have two potential all-time greats on our offense. I understand that it's almost too good to be true for the Jets. Those kinds of things just haven't happened to us. But I think things are changing with the Jets, and that's due to Lawrence. I can't explain it, I just have confidence and hope in the Jets like I haven't since the days of Parcells. I never had this level of confidence or hope with Rex Ryan as HC even in 2009 and 2010.
     
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  18. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    JD whiffed on the OLine acquisitions in FA. He can't afford another whiff in the 2020 FA market or draft. He has to fix both the OL issue and the WR issue. In fact, the Jets would be better served if 90% of our abundance of picks are on the offense. GW put together a decent defense even after having Adams removed from it. The Seattle game looked more like the D was going thru the motions rather than actually trying to keep the Jets in the game. Frank Bush is not the answer on D so JD's HC hire better know who to put on his staff.

    There are a lot of needs on this team and they all can't be addressed in one offseason. WR speed is huge. We have guys that can kill over the middle, but no real blazing fast WR's to threaten teams deep. We don't have an OL capable of holding blocks long enough for guys to get downfield anyway. We have a definitive need for speed at more than a few positions.

    Give JD a mulligan on his first draft, but give him the fisheye on his second. He has to get this draft right if not hit it out of the park. The Jets need this draft more than any other draft in their 60 year history. Definitely can't be an Idzikian fck up.

    Get it done JD.. This is NY. We need to see results..
     
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  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    He did not whiff on the OL acquisitions. I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous take. McGovern had a rough start, but has been playing at a pretty high level. The same goes for Van Roten. Fant has been fine. The signings Douglas made were not intended to be long-term, final fixes, only short-term stop gaps. That's why all of the contracts save McGovern's the Jets can get out of after this season, with little or no cap ramifications. For him to have whiffed, his intent would have had to have been that these were the long term solutions, and he believes that the OL is now fixed. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I agree that 90% of our picks should be used on offense. As you said, there are a lot of needs on this team and they all can't be addressed in one offseason. That applies to last offseason as well as the upcoming one. The OL was improved this season, and got better as the season has progressed. It's not a finished product by any means.
     
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  20. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

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    I think the Colts just got caught....Manning had never missed any serious time.

    Polian had plenty of capital -- built the team into a winner, a Super Bowl, his Bills and Jaguars resumes -- and he STILL got fired by Irsay at season-end.


    If the Colts tanked, then Polian never told Irsay about it because segueing from Manning to Luck in 1 years time was a stroke of brilliance. In fact, you can say that firing Polian and hiring Ryan Grigson was the mistake since he never built an OL to protect Luck and he retired after 7 seasons.

    Irsay screwed it up. Probably should have kept Polian. 1 horrible season and guy with 20+ years on his resume gets the heave-ho ?

    Wow........
     

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