How Many 1st Rd Defensive Player Does it Take...

Discussion in 'Draft' started by legler82, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    ...to build a top rated defense? It seems in the last decade the Jets have been trying to answer this one question. There always seem to be some kind of justification to draft defense. When our defense is great, it's we need to sure up an area of strength. When we suck, it's we need to improve an area of weakness. Or it's BPA.

    I find it interesting that the last time we had the number 1 ranked defense in the NFL was during the 2009 season, coincidentally it's the last time we used our 1st round pick on an offensive player, Mark Sanchez. Since then we used our picks on what we thought were defensive studs (i.e., Kyle Wilson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Quinton Coples, Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Calvin Pryor, Leonard Williams and Darron Lee), and our defensive rankings have declined. Maybe our defensive coaches get lazy with talent.

    Anyway, I'm tired of seeing us draft defensive players with our top pick have them be coached by supposed defensive genius HCs only to suck or be mediocre. Lets get some playmakers on offense for once. If we do plan on cutting the vets and go with the youth movement next year, what better way to help a young QB out than to surround him with talent? Wouldn't it be great if we could get Hack, Petty or my dream scenario, Mahomes, a guy that can take a dump off pass the distance or out jump a defender for the ball in the end zone? Sorry for the random rant but but had to get it off my chest somewhere as I'm so not looking forward to drafting a fucking safety with our 6th overall pick.
     
  2. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Jets picked a lot of shitty players made some bad choices. It shouldn't take this long, but that's on the scouting dept / GM.

    Kyle Wilson - Nope
    Muhammad Wilkerson - Justifiable
    Quinton Coples - Nope
    Dee Milliner - Nope
    Sheldon Richardson - Nope
    Calvin Pryor - NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
    Leonard Williams - Justifiable
    Darron Lee - Justifiable
     
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  3. RubenDias

    RubenDias Well-Known Member

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    Pryor was a good prospect coming out and Sheldon was one of the best players in the 2013 class wich isn't saying much. Others i agree with you Dee Milliner was a very risky pick, 6 surgerys on knees pre draft how can you take that guy #9 overall.
     
  4. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    We missed out on 2 QBs cause we selected Pryor. We missed on receivers that draft too. Pryor wasn't the BPA. Sheldon was good, and I didn't know much about him, but a lot of fans was looking at a certain TE from Notre Dame that went to the Bengals. I was also a big Chance Warmack fan at the time.

    Urgh Dee was such a reach, so upsetting we took him.
     
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  5. wewantsapp

    wewantsapp Well-Known Member

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    +1. Its ALL on the scouting dept & GM. I could answer the OP's question with just 2 words ===== Terry Bradway.
    In addition, - there's a backstory on each of the picks;

    Kyle Wilson - Nope Rex Ryan heavily involved. The JETS needed access to other teams' scouting reports that said Wilson was very limited athletically === i.e. almost never turned his hips in his entire college career.
    Muhammad Wilkerson - Justifiable You gotta hit on one sometime. Probably moreso a product of good coaching,..............and I mean Karl Dunbar. And only Karl Dunbar.
    Quinton Coples - Nope Rex Ryan pick (100%). Despite red flags everywhere about his effort & motor.
    Dee Milliner - Nope John Idzik pick. Previous regime depleted roster of players effectively backing us into a corner where we didnt have anyone playing CB. But the numberous red flags about his injury history should have caused us to go in a different direction.
    Sheldon Richardson - Nope Gotta disagree w/you on this one. He was Rookie of the Year. Not sure anyone could have predicted he would turn into a bonehead. Unless there were whispers after his interview.
    Calvin Pryor - NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE Shouldve been Haha Clinton Dix instead. John Idzik pick. Probably encouraged by the shitty scouting department. The real story about the 2014 draft was the rest. Horrendous.
    Leonard Williams - Justifiable Fell into our laps. I think it could have been Vic Beasley but with our draft history, I shouldnt even dare consider splitting hairs.
    Darron Lee - Justifiable We'll see. I considered him too small for the inside on our D. We'll get a better read on him next year.
     
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  6. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Yeah I didn't know much about Sheldon then, it was a good pick. I'll stand corrected on that and won't argue it. In terms of Pryor, we should've had Bridgewater or Carr as pick. Idzik was so encouraged by Geno Smith ...
     
  7. cgrec

    cgrec Well-Known Member

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    Pryor wasnt even the best safety on the board!
     
  8. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

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    Jmo on Calvin Pryor - many here were not complaining about his play in the 2015 season. Matter of fact, they were times when he wasn''t on the field at that time that the defense showed some weakness. I think a few adjustments , in addition to a new CB coach, may do wonders. He seemed to have put on some weight which could be a factor also. I'm expecting an improved version for 2017 if he is utilized correctly and loses some weight.
     
  9. b.reyes16

    b.reyes16 Well-Known Member

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    Dee Milliner was considered by many to be the best player on the board at that time. Coles would've been a top 5 pick had he come out a year earlier. Sheldon was the DROP and is still a fantastic player, just a dumb one as well. Pryor had a huge 2015 year, but has been underwhelming outside of that.

    I'm not saying our GM made the right pick in all these scenarios, but I don't think theh were all blatantly boneheaded picks either. Except for Wilson. He was jus ew.
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. But who do we take? Do we 'reach' for OJ Howard or take Mike Williams? I'm firmly against taking a runningback but I'd much prefer Dalvin Cook over Fournette because of his ability to do different things and the lack of injury history.

    I know you're a big draft guy, so I'm interested to see your potential mock draft (albeit very early) to rebuild the offense. And I'm not saying this sarcastically at all.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to lean towards Cook or even Howard instead of Fournette because of the potential of injury and/or breaking down quicker due to his style of running. That said, Jim Brown was that kind of runner and IMO was the greatest RB in NFL history. But if they don;t take Watson, I would be happy with any of these three.
     
  12. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    Who do we reach for at #6?

    Vote none of the above!

    Either trade up for the chosen one (Garret) or move down and get more than one great player.
     
  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    How many 1st Round Defensive Players Does It Take...to screw in a lightbulb?
     
  14. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Moving down doesn't guarantee getting more than one - or even one - great player, or at least the great players you need.

    And moving down is a "defensive" strategy: it says, I'm afraid I'm going to blow the #6 pick, so I'll trade down and avoid that flack. When will the Jets draft as high as #6 again? MAYBE next year, but more likely, not. And if they improve at all, they'll start getting those 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 years that will actually hurt their drafting. This is why if they have a shot at Watson they need to take him now - "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush".
     
  15. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    With the sixth pick in the NFL draft the New York Jets select Vernon Gholsten.

    With the fifth pick in the NFL draft the New York Jets select Mark Sanchez,

    With the fourth pick in the NFL draft the New York Jets select Dewayne Robertson.

    Insanity is repeating the same think and expecting a different result.
     
  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well, first off all those picks were made by a different GM/Coach. That said, the jury's still out on this tandem.

    But what you're also suggesting is that if this were the Daytona 500, and our driver had the track record of previous regimes, we wouldn't trust him with the fastest car because we'd be too afraid he'd just crash, so we give a him slower one and tell him to stay safely back, figuring that finishing the race in one piece is better than risking the crash.
     
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  17. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    You seem fixated on the idea that one of the safeties or running backs that will go in the top five must be a lot better than a safety or running back that will go later in the first round.

    Good team like the Patriots or the Steelers that seem to make the playoffs most of the time rarely draft in the top six yet they seem to clean our clocks most of the time anyway. Perhaps those players they are taking later in the first round have almost as good of a chance to succeed. Clearly a player taken in the second half of round one that turns our to be just as good as a player taken at 6 presents a much better value and therefore allows his team to be much more competitive.
     
  18. Big Cat

    Big Cat Well-Known Member

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    11

    3 more baby!
     
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  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You are fixated on the idea that a player taken at the bottom of round 1 is likely to be as good as players taken in the top 10, and you're wrong! Yes, sometimes great players are taken lower and sometimes players taken in the top 10 bust or prove to not be "all that" in the NFL. Most of the time, however, those who are taken that highly are "stars" and top players in the NFL whereas those taken at the bottom of round 1 are good and solid players, but most of them aren't "great" players.
     
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  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not "fixated", but I do believe that players taken in the Top 10 are usually special talents (unless the Jets draft them).

    I think you're overlooking the obvious difference between the Jets and teams like the Pats or Steelers: those teams are built properly and rarely have numerous holes to fill, and when you have above average to excellent players at all positions, it allows you to not have to get the very best player (although of course if you can, you will). Also, those teams know how to develop players and utilize them to their strengths, whereas the Jets don't seem to be able to do that. To go back to my race car analogy, you take a custom race car and give Dale Earnhardt a stock car and he'll beat you every time.

    Aside from that, if there really wasn't much difference between the top and bottom of the rounds why do they slot them according to reverse W/L record? Of course they're trying to give the worse teams an advantage so they can build themselves up.

    At #6 the Jets are almost guaranteed an impact player - if they don't screw it up, as they certainly have before. And they absolutely need an impact player - a player who can transform a unit by himself. As you know, I believe the "O" needs that player more than the "D" - not that the "D" doesn't need to be upgraded, but there is more defensive talent available in this draft than "O", so it makes sense to draft "O" before that talent is taken.
     
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