Has JD vastly improved the Jets since taking over?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by KingRoach, May 21, 2022.

?

Do the Jets have a better roster now than 3 years ago?

  1. Yes

    58 vote(s)
    65.2%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. Too Early To Tell

    25 vote(s)
    28.1%
  4. I Hate The Jets

    3 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,840
    Likes Received:
    8,655
    My two cents.
    A) Is the roster vastly improved? IMO yes, mostly on paper, last year we added a few good pieces, although decimated by injuries, and this year again on paper is even better. But the proof is yet to be seen on the field. And even then, a vastly improved roster does not equate to more wins. Why? Because the competition could have improved even more than us.
    B) To me the real hard nut question is this. Will our 2022 final roster and CS have improved enough to close the gap against the competition and become more competitive? Hope so, but none of us have a clue till we see the total product on the field this season.
    The rest is a big ass paper guess.
     
  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    11,975
    Likes Received:
    17,305
    Spot on.

    Everyone is so anxious to finally see significant, sustainable improvement, that many are trying to "read tea leaves" based on "evidence" like players stats either from their pro career so far, or their college career in the case of draftees, and comparing the Jets to other teams they believe were in similar circumstances, but almost none of that is applicable, it's just mental masturbation.

    From my POV, we're far better off because we have a GM who has lots of hands on experience in identifying talent for several successful teams, and who obviously has a blueprint from which he building. He was finally given the power to hire his own HC and CS and clear organizational control over them. He then hired Saleh who had a number of years of increasing responsibility and experience with several successful teams. While I would've preferred hiring an experienced, winning coach there were none available, or from what I know, willing to take the job. Saleh was the best candidate available and Douglas hired him. We've also now had two FA periods and drafts where Douglas worked with Saleh to find players to fit his schemes, and upgraded the talent - some will say a little, some (me) will say a lot, but the general consensus by NFL personnel people and media pundits say the Jets have the most talent they've had in years.

    All that said, as you noted, the rest of the NFL and the AFCE didn't stand still, nor did they all get an equally difficult/easy schedule, so there's no way we can make definitive prediction on W/L record at this point. All any of us can do is post our best optimistic/pessimistic belief and then wait to see what happens.
     
    KY Jets Fan, Noam, Cman65 and 2 others like this.
  3. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    Agree…

    I would just add one commet with respect to Saleh. I agree that Saleh was one of the top candidates that year…calling him the best available is a defensible position, but it’s not a fact. I also liked him then. At the time, I was leaning more towards Brian Daboll for a few reasons….1. He’s an offensive coach, 2. He’s in our division so he knows the competition well already and hiring him would have weakened the Bills a little bit (who knows how much), and 3. He had success developing a raw QB so he’s shown he can do that. Without knowing either guy personally or having any insight into their styles or personalities or whatnot, I would probably have preferred Daboll but I was happy with Saleh also.

    I guess I’ll get to see how he does now that he’s with the Giants…we’ll see if we made the right choice over the next couple of seasons…
     
  4. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    The team is much better on paper. I don't think anyone would really disagree with that. Unfortunately, football is not played on paper.

    The Jets have been awful and I believe gotten worse every year JD has been here. That's not to say its necessarily his fault, but its impossible for me to say the team is vastly improved if they continue to be among the worst teams in the NFL.

    I like JD and I think he has now strung together two potentially good drafts. I wouldn't be shocked if the Jets are a good amount better this year. But until I see it on the field, I cant call them vastly improved.
     
    Noam and Cman65 like this.
  5. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    373
    i disagree. I think the offense is loaded with talent across the board. We have solid TEs for the first time in forever. There are solid starters and depth at WR and RB. The OLine starters should also be solid, but with questionable depth (but I think JD will address prior to season)

    The defense has also been revamped. There are solid starters and good depth at CB and Edge. Interior Dline might be a weakness, but I keep hearing that Quinnen is a beast and will dominate (he’s been a solid starter but not a star). Starting safeties and LBs should be capable, but with questionable depth.

    This roster is far better than three years ago and if Zack’s QB play puts him in the top half of QBs, this team will be very competitive and has a shot at the playoffs.

    I think that this roster is certainly in the top half of the NFL in terms of talent and I don’t think that could have been said three years ago. Moreover, this roster is very very young and will significantly improve as it gains experience both in the NFL and in their offensive and defensive systems. The future should be bright with this team.
     
  6. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    6,831
    Where is the indication that Wilson will leapfrog over anyone, much less half the QBs in the league to get to the top half? That's a humongous "if."

    The rest of your claims are vague "paper" claims and as long as the game is played on a green field those paper claims are nothing more than wishful thinking. You have questioned depth in multiple positions, identified weakness, and used the word "should" twice and "might" once; that should tell you something about where the team stands today.
     
  7. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    373
    Zack has a much better offense around him than last year and, along with the development you'd expect from a 2nd year QB with his 2nd year in the same offensive system, QB performance in the top half of the league is not a crazy expectation. There are few teams that will surround their QB with the talent the jets have on offense. Remember that at the end of the year, Zack finished the season with 5 games with no turnovers, when he had pretty much only JAGs as WRs who were bagging groceries at supermarkets just a few weeks earlier and who had no business being a receiver on an NFL team. I guess we'll see as the season progresses whether you're right or I'm right.
     
  8. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    I do believe Zach will get better…or maybe to put it another way, he almost HAS to get better, because he was pretty awful last year and there’s not much lower to go when you’re the lowest ranked QB in the league, right? I know a lot of folks here truly believe he will improve a lot, and there are many good reasons why he should…you noted two big ones….experience in the system and a much improved supporting cast.

    The one item I get a little skeptical on is this continuing narrative that he looked so much better after the injury based on a very subjective “eye test”… when you look at the actual stats, though, they don’t actually support that claim…the stats were actually not better at all except for the no picks stats. And he was playing a much more conservative game then with very little in the way of aggressive throws…he just kept it to simple safe stuff in order to cut down on the mistakes so it’s not like he had this revelation of play where he kept making great plays and somehow eliminated the picks. Not that it’s not the right thing to do, but literally that’s the only stat that improved after he came back. Every other key stat (yards per game, yards per attempt, completion rate, etc) did not look any better upon his return. So yes I get he was throwing to practice squad guys at the end, and we had a bunch of injuries on the OL also, so while I agree that the stats may have looked better if he was still playing with the starters, it’s really hard to know for sure.

    I do believe one year is not enough to judge, especially with a new coaching staff still feeling their way, and especially with the huge amount of injuries that depleted an already thin roster, so I have hope as well. But I need to see it on the field to believe it will come. I’ll go back to Mark Dominick’s comments on NFL Radio where he said Bill Walsh told him that it takes about a year and a half to tell if a QB is going to be good or not…if it hasn’t happened for the QB after about 22-24 games, then most likely it’s not gonna happen for him. That was Bill Walsh’s view. And specifically about Zach (they has a segment on these 2nd year QBs) he did say you can’t really judge based on last year due to the new staff, the significant injuries, and the normal rookie QB struggles, but he said by mid season this year we should have a decent idea of what Zach could become.

    But yeah, if he can improve to merely average, it’ll be a huge gain and we should be a lot better for it.
     
    #48 Jets79, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    Ralebird likes this.
  9. toddhershkowitz

    toddhershkowitz Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2020
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    146
  10. HackettStillSux

    HackettStillSux Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,703
    Likes Received:
    1,373
    I voted yes confidently based solely on the veterans that have been signed. That being said, the entire AFC has vastly improved.
     
    Jets79 likes this.
  11. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    6,831
    And the bolded is where we disagree the most. Has there ever been a time in NFL history when a QB's performance jumped 16 places in a year? The rest of what you write here is simply a rehash of your earlier post that I have already addressed. What you're right about is that we shall see whose prediction is more accurate.
     
  12. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    3,116
    Has JD improved the roster or not?
     
  13. GREG

    GREG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    On paper - Yes. In reality - We will find out starting in September. There is no other answer to give at this point.
     
    cval likes this.
  14. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,953
    Likes Received:
    2,336
    Yes, as recent as 5 years ago.

    TBH it might have been the scheme. He was in an Offense that’s incredible QB friendly. I think it’s called Shannon something. It’s supposed to be very QB friendly once learned.
     
    #54 KingRoach, Jun 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  15. All Gas No Shake

    All Gas No Shake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,125
    Likes Received:
    709
    its happened several times in recent memory: cam newton, ryan tanehill, lamar jackson, josh allen to name a few
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  16. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    6,831
    Yes. But he has not "vastly" improved it; that's the question here.

    I have a question for you - Is it reasonable to believe Zach Wilson can move from the last place or two in QB ratings to the top half of the league in one season?
     
  17. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    6,831
    They all made some good moves; which jumped 16 rungs on the ladder?
     
  18. Bellys Lies

    Bellys Lies Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    242
    Three yrs in and we are probably still considered the worst team in AFC east. Under JD we have signed expensive free agents , drafted very high draft picks over 3 yrs and it is very likely we will win 6 games this season at the most. That would give JD 12 wins in three seasons. Plus he will not have a ton of draft capital in next yrs draft (unless we are drafting n the top 8 again) and modest cap money
     
  19. NYJ1970

    NYJ1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    474
    For me this question can be answered by saying the following.....

    Joe Douglas has done everything humanly possible to make the Jets a better team. He's transformed the roster into a much younger and much, much more talented team. Along the way he's managed to get the Jets to be the most efficiently run organization in the league. This season the Jets have the very lowest amount of dead cap space in the league. So from a behind the Sunday games point of view, Joe Douglas has killed his job.

    With that said, he has ZERO results to show for his efforts and without wins all of his efforts mean nothing.

    And that leaves you with only one conclusion. That is, this coaching staff and team must absolutely start winning games on the field. That starts in the 2022 season.....
     
  20. NYJ1970

    NYJ1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    474
    I can't imagine how you could possibly draw that conclusion when the regular season hasn't even started yet?
     
    KingRoach and ColoradoContrails like this.

Share This Page