Gronk retires (Un-retires and signs with Bucs)

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by GWjet, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    He was Joe Namath with a healthy body.
     
  2. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Namath won his only Super Bowl
     
  3. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    People still debate it plenty, and always will.
    For me the top 5 would be Peyton, Unitas, Montana, Marino and Elway, put them in any order you prefer.
    Brees edging towards that conversation as well.
     
    #83 BacktoQueens, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  4. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    Correction, New England* has won with defense, they've won with special teams, they've won by limiting penalties, they've won in the turnover battle, they've won with the running game, and they've won with passing (mainly short passing), all depending on personnel and situation.
    And let's not forget all the cheating.

    How people somehow attribute that all to Br*dy is beyond me.
    That is coaching, and proof to me that Br*dy is a product of the system and environment.

    Take away that environment, and he goes from this guy:
    [​IMG]

    To this guy:
    [​IMG]

    The other great QB's can and did succeed with multiple coaches, or in multiple places.
    Judging QB's, or any player, by team Wins is an argument I can't get behind.
     
    #84 BacktoQueens, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
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  5. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    Manning is 3-2 over Br*dy in championship games.
    He took 4 different mediocre Head coaches to the Super Bowl, and won on two different teams.
    That is the definition of proving you can succeed anywhere.

    Br*dy has only played with every advantage, and never took a snap away from the best coach of the modern era.
    All of the early success in NE was around a strong defense, flawless specials, excellent game planning, and a ridiculous amount of cheating.
    it was far from being a Br*dy driven team.
     
  6. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Brady has more game winning drives than every QB you mentioned. Manning was carried by a great D in his last SB. He wasn't remotely an elite QB when he won his last SB. Elway was carried by Terrell Davis in his 2 SB wins. Without td he doesn't sniff a SB win.
     
  7. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    to be fair though peyton carried the colts for over a decade and never had even a decent D and had to try and win shootouts every game. Brady has always had a D to support him and his 1st 3 Sbs were won way more on defense.

    also according to PFR maning is the all time leader in 4Q comebacks with 43. brady is 2nd with 35. for game winning drives peyton is 1st again with 54, brady is 4th with 44 (brees and marino are 2nd and 3rd)
     
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  8. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how close there over all stats are both regular season and playoffs. Brady has a slightly higher QBR because his TD to Int ratio is slightly better in both the regular season and the playoffs. Brady played outdoors and Payton played indoors. I also think Payton had better WR/RB talent most of his career.

    Take a look at Brady's SB performances vs Paytons. Brady had 5 SB performances that were great. Manning had one great one and one where he was at best a game manager for a defense that killed it. Manning was made to look awful by the same D, Seattle that Brady carved up in the SB.
     
  9. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I hate to defend Brady but he's simply the best big game QB we have seen.

    As far as Payton, great QB. Put Marino in a dome with Mavin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and James and I think he would have blown the doors off of Manning's numbers.

    The NFL indoors and in the South and West isn't the same as the NFC East and AFC East.
     
  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    i wouldn't say brady had 5 great QB games in the SB at all TBH. his best game was probably the loss the philly or the 2nd half of the ATL game. he wasn't good in either SB loses to eli and wasn'tt hat good his 1st 3 wins really. manning was awful in his 1st one and in his last one he was pretty beat up. he was great in his 2nd one though.

    I agree peyton has had way better talent on offense then brady over his career. it isn't even close. but brady has never had to carry a team like peyton which leads to more risk taking. brady can control the ball and not make mistakes and win where peyton never had that luxury until going to denver after a major neck injury that cost him a year and age 37ish
     
  11. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    He was terrific against Carolina and Philadelphia in his 2nd and 3rd win. Take a look at his numbers in those 2 games. Both were very close and he played great down the stretch in both of them.
     
  12. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Liked not because I agree with you but because Trading Places is an awesome movie.
     
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  13. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    It's the perfect analogy, as Br*dy is the ultimate Winthorp.
    A snotty product of his environment.
    Belichick and Kraft are the Duke bros, using Cassel/Garrapolo/Brisset as their Eddie Murphy experiment.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    On a side note, I haven't seen this much Br*dy ball washing since Junc infested this forum.
    He must still have some login passwords. ;)
     
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  15. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    AYFKM, Br*dy has been carried his entire career by Belichick.
    And in his early years, he was completely carried by a D, running game, specials, and his coaching staff telling him the defensive play calls.
    He didn't even make a pro-bowl until what, after 3 super bowls? far from an elite QB at that point.

    No one has been carried and coddled more than Br*dy, stepping into the best situation of all time. That argument is a joke.
     
  16. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    You realize Peyton won an MVP, a Super Bowl, and every single QB record while playing in Denver - mile high stadium in the cold snowy outdoors right?
     
  17. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    You realize he was benched for Brock Osweiler in the year he won the SB in Denver? He had 9 TD and 17 INT's and was nothing but a game manager in the entire playoff run that year. He had a 56 QB rating in the SB.

    In the SB against Seattle when he could actually throw the ball more than 20 yards he had 2 picks and a fumble early and put his team in a hole that he crawled into and went fetal position.

    Nation wide is on your side.
     
  18. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    not that stats mean everything but

    2001 (STL) he was under 60%, 1 TD, 145 yards. they won 20-17. Ty law had a pick 6 on defense and they had 2 FGs including the game winner as the clock expired (48 yarder)

    2003 (Car) he played well and the defense didn't carry him like in 2001, but he was outplayed by delhomme and deon branch was their best offensive player in that game and again took a FG with 4 seconds left to get the win

    2004 (Phi) he was efficient, but not impressive. they won because they picked off mcnabb 3 times (philly had 4 turnovers to NE's 1) and they still only won by 3

    2007 (NYG) his 1st SB loss and this was the season he had randy moss and went undefeated all year and broke all kinds of offensive records. in the SB they only scored 14 points (1 TD from brady and 1 TO) very mediocre game by brady all things considered

    2011 (NYG) 2nd loss to eli. solid game but eli outplayed him and plus brady had the only turnover in the game and they lost by 4. they went into the 4th up by 2 points and brady couldn't put up a single point in the 4th quarter. giants scored the only points of the 4th quarter with under a minute left. pats scored 0 points in the final 26 minutes of the game (almost the entire 2nd half)

    2014 (SEA) he played good, but not great. had 2 INTs in a game they won by 4. Seattle on 1st and goal from like the 2 opted to throw and wilson got picked off which is how the pats closed out the game. likely they don't win if they run it with lynch instead

    2016 (ATL) he was awful in the 1st half as they were down 21-3, he was great in the 2nd half though to lead the comeback and get the win.

    2017 (PHI) easily the best game he had in any SB, but the D let him down and philly got the win. 3TDs 0 INTs 500+ yards and 33 total points. not his fault they lost this at all

    2018 (LAR) the rams scored 3 points all game and were inept on offense. gurley didn't play due to injury pretty much that they hid, and goff looked terrible. brady had 0TDs 1 INT and only put up 13 points. lets face it this game sucked and both offenses were inept
     
  19. johnny

    johnny Well-Known Member

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    I myself have mentioned numerous times in this forum since the end of the 2018 season that the Pats regular season success over the other AFC East teams is only very slightly better than their record vs. the rest of the NFL. Therefore, I agree that is not THE major factor in the Pats success since Brady became the starter.

    However, it can't be overlooked that if the other AFC East teams were just a little bit better vs. The Pats it would have been harder for them to get the advantageous seedings in the playoffs that they have enjoyed.

    Also the fact that the Brady‐led Pats have rarely had to deal with another team in their division winning 11 games in a season has got to help their cause.
     
  20. johnny

    johnny Well-Known Member

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    I myself have mentioned numerous times in this forum since the end of the 2018 season that the Pats regular season success over the other AFC East teams is only very slightly better than their record vs. the rest of the NFL. Therefore, I agree that is not THE major factor in the Pats success since Brady became the starter.

    However, it can't be overlooked that if the other AFC East teams were just a little bit better vs. The Pats it would have been harder for them to get the advantageous seedings in the playoffs that they have enjoyed.

    Also the fact that the Brady‐led Pats have rarely had to deal with another team in their division winning 11 games in a season has got to help their cause.
     
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