Interesting poll from RESPN from their baseball "experts". here are the results: POLL RESULTS ? Here are the results of ESPN.com's poll, asking 32 of ESPN's baseball experts (named below) to list the top 10 greatest living pitchers. Points were awarded on a 1-10 scale (10 for a first-place vote down to a 1 for a 10th-place vote). NO. PITCHER PTS. 1 Roger Clemens 278 2 Tom Seaver 196 3 Sandy Koufax 192 4 Bob Gibson 186 5 Greg Maddux 177 6 Bob Feller 126 7 Randy Johnson 123 8 Pedro Martinez 119 9 Steve Carlton 101 10 Juan Marichal 71 Others receiving votes: Nolan Ryan 67, Mariano Rivera 41, Whitey Ford 35, Jim Palmer 33, Fergie Jenkins 6, Dennis Eckersley 6, Robin Roberts 2, Goose Gossage 2 Dave Stewart 2. THE VOTERS Dave Barnett, Jim Callis, Jim Caple, Dave Campbell, Jerry Crasnick, Orestes Destrade, Peter Gammons, Gary Gillette, Pedro Gomez, Orel Hershiser, Eric Karabell, Eric Karros, Bob Klapisch, Tim Kurkjian, Michael Knisley, Buck Martinez, Sean McAdam, Sean McDonough, Jon Miller, Rob Neyer, Steve Phillips, Karl Ravech, Phil Rogers, Enrique Rojas, David Schoenfield, Alan Schwarz, Jon Sciambi, John Shea, Dan Shulman, Jayson Stark, Rick Sutcliffe, Gary Thorne Link to full article(It's about Clemens): http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/colum..._peter&id=2426053&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1
This is a very reasonable list. I would put Carlton higher and Gibson lower, but I think the top 3 is hard to argue with.
it may have something to do w/ Koufax was a big game pitcher- a .95 postseason ERA compared to 3.40 for Pedro.
Roger Clemens hands down gets my nod. He is a some type of genetic freak of nature. I would put Nolan Ryan higher as well (just for beating the crap out of Robin Ventura when he charged the mound in Arlington-by far one of my fav sports memories.
Nolan Ryan is one of the most overrated players of all time, he belongs nowhere any list of greatest pitchers.
Wow, the first baseball thing I agree with junc on... Nolan Ryan is one of the most overrated players in history. Sure he had a lot of no hitters and strikeouts, but he also walked a ridiculous number of hitters. As for Pedro/Koufax, Koufax was 4-3, .95 in 7 starts, hardly a good sample size. He also didn't have to pitch in the modern era, with a lowered mound, juiced balls, steroid laden hitters, and two extra playoff rounds against lineups like the 1999 Indians and Yankees, the 2003 Yankees, and the 2004 Yankees and Cardinals. The most runs scored by a team Koufax faced was 774, the LEAST scored by any of those lineups is 855. I'm looking for postseason ERA+ numbers but can't seem to find them.
Pedro in his prime blows Clemens away. How could the greates pitcher have sub .500 years in the middle of huis carrer? Oh that's right he went to the Jays and met Jose Canseco. B12?
If you are going to count the extra playoff rounds against Koufax then you have to take into consideration that he pitched prior to expansion so it really was the best of the best that he faced every day. Those 7 starts were all in the World Series, most of which were against the Yankees who were in the middle of an incredible run and were the best team in baseball. You also have to consider the differences in pitching philosophy. Starters finished games back then. Closers werent defined yet. I do think Pedro is ranked too low but I also believe that Koufax gets discounted because he had to leave the game at an early age. His prime 5 years and Pedro's prime 5 years are very, very comparable with Koufax getting the edge in wins and strikeouts and Pedro in ERA.
Only one was against the Yankees. The others were Baltimore, Minnesota, and Chicago. None of those offenses come close to what Pedro faced. Look at ERA+, that tells a different story. Pedro is the all time leader at 166, Koufax only 131. Still good, but not even close to Pedro.
Yeah but outside of Pedro vs. Cle in '99 and vs. NYY in '99 he was not a lights out pitcher in postseason. koufax in the WS: '59(against ChiSox)- game 1 pitched 2 scorless innings in relief. Game 5 pitched 7 inning sgave up 1 earned run and took the loss. '63(against NYY)- Game 1-complete game, 2 ER, 15 Ks Game 4- complete game, 1 ER '65(against Minny)- Game 2- 6 IP, 1 ER took the loss Game 5- complete game, 4 hits, 0 runs, 10 K's Game 7- complete game, 3 hits, 0 runs, 10 Ks '66(vs. Bal)- game 2- 6 IP, 1 ER took the loss He has 3 postseason losses and in each game he gave up 1 eraned run. Pitching complete game shutouts in games 5 & 7 in the WS is remarkeable. i think it's a little clearer to see why he's rated higher.
Right about that. Code: Year Round Tm Opp WLser G GS ERA W-L SV CG SHO IP H ER BB SO +------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+ 1959 WS LAD CHW W 2 1 1.00 0-1 0 0 0 9.0 5 1 1 7 1963 WS LAD NYY W 2 2 1.50 2-0 0 2 0 18.0 12 3 3 23 1965 WS LAD MIN W 3 3 0.38 2-1 0 2 2 24.0 13 1 5 29 1966 WS LAD BAL L 1 1 1.50 0-1 0 0 0 6.0 6 1 2 2 +------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+ 4 World Series 3-1 8 7 0.95 4-3 0 4 2 57.0 36 6 11 61 +------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+ That is just sick. He loses 3 WS games but still has a .95 ERA. 2-1 record against the Twins with a .38 ERA. Talk about no offensive help.
