I was just attempting to look up the Jets Salary Cap situation for 09. I stumbled accross a website called RealGM.com, could not find cap space but found an article previewing 2008 for Jets. The person in the article mentions Gholston being a great pass rushing D end, whose knocks right before draft were ability to play the run and effort. He then went on to say that in his opinion though Gholston was the Best DE he ever saw defending the screen pass in College Football. Just found this interesting as if it were the case that he had a great ability to cover or defend a screen pass I would think we should see this guy on the field over thomas immediately.
Of course, covering RBs out of the backfield would require Gholston to exert maximum effort - meaning he would have to run at full speed while on the football field - which I haven't seen him demonstrate an interest in doing.
hey my time spent watching OSU play last year was minimal at best, I am just telling what the guy said. Maybe it does just coem down to thinking instead of reading and reacting. Perhaps this will come
Like who? Just look at the Vid in my sig, and tell me that, that?s the same guy, that couldn?t chase Cutler down.
With Gholston, all the bust bells and whistles are going off right now and the only person that can stop them is Gholston. I can rationalize a slow start, but at this point in the season his play as a rookie has been out right horrendous and a total waste of cap money.
That's not it at all. At Ohio State it was hey line up and rush the QB. In the NFL he is experiencing all kind of coverage assignments and other responsibilities. I guess they thought he would learn them faster but he isn't
gee, I have not watched that video, something is certainly going on . The guy in the video would have got to Cutler and Killed Him he played fast and violent on that highlight reel. I just hope its a matter of learning and overthinking everything. If I were the CS at this moment I would put Gholston in as starter and tell him to get after QB, forget about the rest at the moment. I mean if he came in for Thomas we are not talking about a guy who is stout against the run anyway and in my opinion sense the opening day in Miami is possibly the biggest starting non factor on our team
You should watch that video more carefully. He's the same player. The competition is much better now, and he's completely marginalized. I'll break it down, play-by-play. #1) He is knocked to the side by the RT, the RG fails to pick him up. He does not make a pass-rushing move. The QB retreats BACKWARDS. Anybody can catch a QB who is running backwards- it's the first thing you're taught never to do as a QB. #2) He overpowers the T at the point of attack, the RB runs right into him. Again, the only 'move' he makes is throwing the T out of the way. Doesn't happen that way in the NFL. #3) Looks a lot like the Vernon we've seen this season. T blocks him easily, creating a big pocket. QB tries to run, Vernon disengages and has a gimme-half-sack. #4) Gholston simply overpowers the T, again no pass-rushing move. Hits the QB with his hands. Again, doesn't happen in the NFL. #5) Just runs around a diving (really? nice block, for me to poop on) OT and gets an easy sack. I think we're seeing a trend here of things that NEVER happen in the NFL, unless the opposing OL is Adrien Clarke. #6) Nobody tries to block Gholston as he comes on a delayed blitz or a lengthy stunt. QB is slow to react and still looking to make a throw. Gholston looks a bit faster in pursuit there, but again, that play is no indicator of any sort of talent. #7) The same as the other running play we saw (#2). Overpowers the OL at the point of attack, makes no move to shed the block. Tosses OL aside for a gimme tackle. No moves, no pursuit. Doesn't happen like that in the NFL, unless you're Kris Jenkins. #8) This one looks a bit better, as it's the first time we've seen him move laterally. But he fails to get off the block of what looks like a TE. Strings out the play and makes a tackle with one arm still engaged with the blocker. In the NFL 1) If you fail to get off a block, you cannot carry the blocker with you as you string out a play, 2) If you try to, the RB will recognize that you are blocked and make a cut off the blockers backside, and 3) If you try to make a tackle while one arm is engaged, you will be embarrassed. #9) Runs through the T and forces a bad throw. You don't run through anyone in the NFL without great technique. #10) Bounces off a weak cut-block attempt, pushes the RB out of the way with one arm, and is slow in pursuit of the QB, forcing the pass but not getting there. Again, no technique, simply power and poor pursuit skills. #11) Looks just like this season. Is completely blocked by the T, the QB doesn't step up in the pocket, and Gholston pokes out a hand to screw up the throw. #12) Tackle barely gets a hand on him as he runs around him for an easy sack. Doesn't happen in the NFL. #13) Nobody touches him. Poor lateral movement, but makes the gimme play regardless on a stretch running play. #14) Long falls down, only hitting Gholston with one arm. Another gimme sack, with no technique involved. Also, on a lot of these gimme sacks, Gholston runs about 7-10 yards deep in the backfield before pursuing the QB. That just doesn't work in the NFL. #15) Bounces off the RT who cuts the DT, and then the FB completely whiffs his attempt at a block on Gholston, running right past him. DB blitz gets there, forcing the QB to run right into Gholston, only about a yards or two deep. #16) The epitome of why Gholston scared me as a potential Jet. Runs straight into the OT, pushing him backwards with no attempt at a move, QB eventually runs left, and Gholston throws the T aside to make the play. Just power. Nothing else. #17) Runs through the RT, gets to the QB as the ball is released. Just a poor block and a lot of power. No technique again. #18) Play goes too fast to really tell what the set up is, but it is worth noting that his tackling technique was horrid, flinging his body behind the receiver, and arm-tackling him with his arm completely extended. #19) Just like #16 except from the opposite side. Another arm tackle (have only seen 3-5 out of these plays that weren't) #20) A familiar scene. Gholston runs right through a putrid attempt at a block by Michigan's RT. No technique, another easy one. I almost feel like I've seen this one before. #21) A fumble recovery. Didn't make a play, just picked up the ball as one of 4 or 5 OSU players around it. #22) Not touched by LT. Effectively blocked by RB as he is unable to disengage. QB makes a mistake by holding onto the ball, and running forward. Gholston disengages finally (after the RUNNING BACK had forced him to overrun the play and create a pocket) and makes an easy tackle. #23) This is the one that was on all the highlight films for the way he flattened the QB. The passrush looks the same as the rest though. Comes on a stunt, runs right through the LG, no passrushing moves, and runs full-speed right into the QB. Nice straight line speed for a guy that rarely, if ever, will have to use it in the NFL. #24) Another putrid attempt at a block by a RT, Gholston runs through him. No swim, no rip, no spin, no double-move. Just a straight bullrush that gets to the QB. I know I probably went overboard breaking down each and every play, but I figure maybe people will see it better when it's narrowed down to his BEST plays from college broken down individually, as opposed to the generalizations that he is so easily painted with. I, along with many other posters here, was very wary of Gholston coming out EXACTLY because of videos like the one in your signature. If you just look at the end result, hurray, he's fantastic, lots of sacks and tackles behind the line. But when judging whether a player is going to be good in the NFL, I think it is important to take what you see on film and then evaluate how effective it will be in a league where the OTs are enormous, strong as bulls and have worked all their lives with the best trainers in the world to perfect their footwork an technique. Where even the RBs often have impeccable technique. Where QBs know never to retreat backwards (except Eli Manning), and that if you have a passrusher running 7-10 yards into the backfield, you need to step up in the pocket and make a throw before he gets a chance to double back and get you. I didn't see anything there that didn't look like Gholston today. The difference, of course, is that he is no longer overpowering anybody (as he did on virtually every play there), he is now overrunning plenty of plays, his arm tackles just don't work against NFL players, and nobody is diving at his feet in pathetic attempts to block him. Yes, it is possible that something suddenly clicks in him, and he gains a boat-load of technique and skill, along with some lateral movement ability in the next couple of years. But I think I can say for certain that he is never going to be making plays like those in the NFL- and for that matter, NOBODY is ever going to make more than one or two plays like that in a given NFL season. It just doesn't happen. His skills translate very poorly to the pro game.
i see all your points, I just am baffled that I saw so many draft preview shows and the talk itself of his enormous upside and then most teams did like this guy alot. I don't think we were alone on this and I have to believe that all these people who get paid to evaluate could not have alll been this wrong.
They're wrong probably about half the time, if not more. Why is it hard to believe they were this time?
Well good job with the analysis first off. I know that the coaching staff had to see something with him though and it was his speed and strength for the most part. Technique is something that can be learned and hopefully he is feeding LT with cocaine and trying to get some moves down. I agree with the post that said before that the coaches should put him out there just to get to the QB. I haven't seen him on the field at all except for about three plays. It would be nice to atleast see him on a blitz once and awhile and see if he can step up when its game time. I will not give up on him yet but its getting harder to keep the faith I can tell you that.
I think my point is what were they looking at or what were they "Seeing" that was different from what you saw. Did they believe the could "Coach him up"? You seem to know your shit. They guy I here favorable comparisons too or people hope to compare to is James Harrison on Pittsburgh. I only know of him this year as he is tearing up the league. Do you know if he had similar traits and was suffering from the same things Vernon seems to be in his rookie year, did Harrison make huge strides his second year because he worked with Greene and just got better technique etc,, and the game slowed down for him, love to here your thoughts on this.
Wow, Beamen! You went all out on that analysis, hats off to you. Gholston's stock was high heading in to the draft, there is no way to argue that it wasn't, but you can't say that his stock was not helped by an excellent combine. You have to be aware of players who make their leaps on the draft board in the Spring, as opposed to in the Winter and Fall. It isn't unreasonable to guess that maybe his fundamental flaws on the playing field were ignored because of how impressive his fundamental physical skills were. He could figure it all out and earn his draft status and contract, but right now he's got a ways to go in terms of his technique.
we need to chill right now and give this guy sometime... A lot of great players look like bums in there 1st year, plus don't forget he is learning a new postion.
LT is on the fan right now, he just said VG is going to be a great player, and what he is experiencing this year as a rookie is natural and expected. He said he's going to be able to help him and fix all his shortcomings, he also brought up Demarcus Ware saying how he sucked his rookie year too, and this season he has 14 sacks already. Listening to LT's perspective on Gholston is very encouraging to say the least.
