Geno Smith: Lost in Cinci Discussion

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Ajitator, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Ajitator

    Ajitator Well-Known Member

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    http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/10/20/7014981/ny-jets-geno-smith-lost-in-cincinnati

    Sorry for formatting check the article for pics/stats

    This sentence made me cringe.

    "Geno over his last 16 games has been statistically worse than the meltdown Sanchez of 2012."

    Ouch.
     
  2. MenOverGod

    MenOverGod Well-Known Member

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    It really could just be Rex is scared of developing quarterbacks. It makes sense.
     
  3. ukjetsfan

    ukjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read. Without looking into the numbers, it has seemed to me that the Jets became scared of both Sanchez and now Smith. By trying to minimise their chances of mistakes, they also minimised their chances of big plays, which can help an offense to gather momentum.

    With Sanchez and now with Geno, it sometimes looks like the Jets offense is walking on ice and is taking smaller and smaller steps in an attempt not to slip over. Even when it works, even when they don't slip over, they're just not going anywhere.
     
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  4. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    I don't think he's scared I think he's just clueless on the topic. Even worse, he appears to actually negatively impact the process. There are fans who believe Rex just needs a good QB to work with and ignore the fact that the head coach needs to help develop the QB.
     
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  5. b.reyes16

    b.reyes16 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read. It makes a lot of sense though. Take, for example, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. They were both thrown into the fir expected to make plays right out of the gate, and they did with the obvious opportunity cost being turnovers. We saw, though, that neither of these guys were ever instructed to tone it down in favor of less turnovers. The results have been historic.


    Obviously, these guys were much more highly touted than Geno and Sanchez, but the point remains that it is hard to develop a QB when you don't allow him to go down field and make plays. Look at Cam Newton. He's developed into a very good QB, but he was also questionable out of college.
     
  6. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if the numbers they list here are as telling as they would seem. There are a lot of other factors that this doesn't touch upon. For instance, throughout Sanchez first 3 years he had the likes of Dustin Keller, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Jerricho Cotchery, LaDainian Tomlinson, and even Plaxico Burress had his useful skills. In 2012 we already had a weaker receiving group to begin with, and after injuries to Holmes and Keller we were starting the likes of a rookie Stephen Hill and Chaz Schilens, with Cumberland as the main TE. Kerley was there but still developing. Out of the backfield, Shonn Greene was the primary back and although he could catch the ball, he couldn't hurt defenses as a receiver.

    If you gave Peyton Manning the offensive skill group made up of Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, Jeff Cumberland, Shonn Greene, and Bilal Powell, you'd see a rapid decline in overall production from the offense. You can defend Sanchez or you can shit on Sanchez, I could care less but my point is I think there is a more obvious correlation to his diminishing production than "being reigned in" by the coaching staff.

    As for Geno Smith, they keep talking about his lack of deep success after the Cincinnati game last year. Well, how about they let me know who threatened defenses deep? Stephen Hill, for all his issues, was able to at least threaten defenses deep. Stephen Hill had 1 reception in 2013 after the Cincinnati game, and due to injuries only played sparingly. Before that, Hill averaged about 3 receptions a game in the games he played in. Is that good, not particularly, but they were often deep receptions, or there was at least 1 or 2 deep targets to Hill each game. This kept defenses (a little more) honest, and gave Geno a weapon that actually had the ability to catch some deep passes.

    I think we also have seen enough to make some connections about offensive production when Decker is on the field. The only game he missed 100% of was the San Diego game, easily our worst showing by far. Leaving early in the Green Bay, Bears and Lions game had obvious results. In GB, we scored TD's on our first 3 possessions before stalling out. In Chicago Geno managed to distribute the ball around a bit more, but after Decker left they couldn't get the ball into the end zone well. In Detroit early offensive success faded away again, as Decker was forced to leave the field. Denver and New England were 2 of the better offensive showings, with Decker seemingly 100% healthy again.

    This is why I'm excited about the potential Harvin brings.
     
  7. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. There is no doubt that Geno showed some promise in his first handful of games with us, and every once in a while he makes a throw that makes you go "wow." But, the leap to becoming a good NFL player (especially a good quarterback) is defined by developing consistency. Good players play well week in and week out. Geno has, thus far, shown no such ability. He's up and down and down some more.

    Regardless of what you think of Sanchez or Geno, there is no question that the propensity for turnovers from the Jet quarterbacks over the last 5 and a half seasons is an indictment of Rex.
     
  8. JetsUK

    JetsUK Well-Known Member

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    either someone has it in him to be a good player or he doesn't - the coach (especially the HC who will have little direct time with them) will have relatively little impact on the development of the QB - I don't care how great the coach is no-one is going to be that much better (or worse) than they were going to be in any event in terms of their skills and abilities - - what QB has been terrible then suddenly become great as a result of coaching, or what QB has been great then suddenly become bad because of coaching once at the NFL level? What people would love to see is the Jets get someone that has gone through the growing pains and established themselves as a decent player (they don't even need to be great, just above average would do!) instead of yet another project when more often than not (with most teams) they fail as playing QB at this level is incredibly hard.

    if coaching could make such a huge difference then how come revis was world class and our other CBs have all struggled when all have had the same coach? how come mangold and ferguson are/were great and the rest of the OL have struggled when they all get the same coaching? its 90% about the player IMO.


    how is it an indictment of Rex? I don't understand the link there at all - I am not saying I agree with it but the article is basically arguing that rex is too conservative and that the problem is he is asking the QBs to be too conservative and so cutting down the number of Interceptions but at the expense of overall offensive performance - so if anything (and if you agree with the article author) rex is responsible for driving down the number of ints rather than being responsible for the number being so high.
     
    #8 JetsUK, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
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  9. TNJet

    TNJet Well-Known Member

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    What would it take to get Matt Ryan from Atlanta?
     
  10. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    Please no one respond to the Matt Ryan question. It does not deserve a response.
     
  11. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    Rex is the head coach. He's ultimately responsible for all mistakes (both physical and mental) that his players make, particularly when they happen week after week after week. In my estimation, he has failed miserably to hold his quarterbacks accountable for not properly honoring possession of the football and it has cost his team. It has nothing to do with playcalling or offensive philosophy. It has to do with a failure to instill accountability in his players. There were numerous times that both Sanchez and Smith should have been benched, but weren't (He waited far too long in both cases). And not because there were better quarterbacks backing them up, but rather, because they needed to be held accountable for their mistakes.
     
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  12. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    kept TB in game
    he imploded in the 4th qtr at NE
    kept Buffalo in the game
    was inept at Tennessee
    awful vs. Pitt
    just handed ball off to beat NE

    I am struggling to find where all this promise came from pre Cincy game?
     
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  13. Jets69

    Jets69 Well-Known Member

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    Geno showed promise against Atlanta, That's it
     
  14. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    he was great against Atlanta and he has shown flashes throughout the year and a half but I can't say I am confident he will be our longterm starter. I hope so, I hope he gets it going. More weapons should help.
     
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  15. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    Agree. He was great in Atlanta and played well overall against Buffalo at home (essentially two great deep throws to Holmes and Hill). That's basically it.
     
  16. soxxx

    soxxx Trolls

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    This is my thought; Geno has yet to really show a string of consecutive games where he has played well. He hasnt honestly done it yet.

    Sanchez had multiple strings of games where he was superb, (2009 week 1-3 / 2009 week 17-AFC Championship / 2010 Week 2-4 / 2010 playoffs / 2011 week 12-14)

    The only time Geno showed good play over multiple games was last year at the end when the season was already over. That's it, it never amounted to anything, it was just fools gold...... The time is running out for Geno, he has to show promise NOW, not later on, now. I think he played alright against Denver and pretty decent against the Patriots. Next week we have the Bills, a better defense that will get pressure on him, which is where he typically makes mistakes, lets see how he does, lets see if he is finally turning this thing around....

    (he has Harvin now to who is very similar to Tavon Austin, which Geno strived with in college, so lets see if this can work,).

     
  17. JetsUK

    JetsUK Well-Known Member

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    as the HC he is held responsible but its wrong to say its his responsibility - if it was all about holding players accountable then every successful coach would be a ball breaker - whereas history shows that pretty much every successful coach is one who - surprise, surprise - has a top tier QB on the roster - look at all the most successful HCs of recent-ish times and look who they had starting under centre.

    I suspect that a big part of the reason sanchez and geno were not held accountable, is because we have never had any truly viable alternatives on the roster - what good quality QB have we ever had on the roster that the HC (regardless of who that HC was) could have turned to in the alternative when the starter was struggling?
     
  18. soxxx

    soxxx Trolls

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  19. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    Shit can this franchise just get a F'in QB at some point in my lifetime that we don't have to bitch about......

    I am really beginning to doubt this is possible.
     
  20. Dirty6Sanchez

    Dirty6Sanchez Well-Known Member

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    So you do care at least a little?
     

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