Franchise QB

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by cval, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    As I look around the league I see three types of Qbs the true Elite Brees, Manning Rogers etc the next level guys Flacco, Ryan and a bunch of young guys.

    Is a Franchise QB really worth it financially. Both Atlanta and Baltimore had to gut their teams to pay good but not great QBs and are now paying the price.

    You do not want to be a team without a decent QB but decent maybe all you need if the next level costs you 20+ million a year.

    I think the NFL maybe at a point where drafting and playing the young QB and dumping him when he wants big time money might make sense. Unless you have truly a top 5 Qb.
     
  2. Blue Raven

    Blue Raven New Member

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    Either invest in a great defense or a great quarterback if you want to win in today's game.
     
  3. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before, I'd rather have a roster made of 2nd rounders from top to bottom than a few top guys making $15-$20m/yr plus 50 scrubs.
     
  4. Jetropolitan33

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    Id say the key if you dont have that elite qb is having a guy who has the capability to take over games and be dynamic, to go along with a solid d. Kind of like san fran last year. Kapernick was and still is inconsistent. But tough to gameplan for a dynamic player. Possibility on a lesser scale, but I think we have some of that. A very solid d, a good offensive coordinator and a qb in geno who can make big plays.
     
  5. Jersey Joe 67

    Jersey Joe 67 Well-Known Member

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    The sad part is the higher the contracts go for the "elite" players the more $ the 2nd and 3rd tier guys will be getting paid.
    I mean, Joe Flacco's contract is just stupid for a player of his caliber.

    It's the trickle down effect in full effect.
     
  6. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    I think they're tiered a bit differently, I don't think Flacco belongs in that conversation.

    Baltimore overpaid an average to above average QB because he managed to win a superbowl. I think Matt Ryan is much better than Flacco, but the Falcons have been hurt by injuries this season.

    I wrote about this in another thread

    http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?p=2857578#post2857578

    Most teams that have repeat superbowl appearances in the past 10 years have an above average QB to Hall of Fame QB. (Brady, Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Big Ben).

    I would bet we'd find the same results with playoff apperances. The teams with top 10 QBs tend to be in the playoffs every year, while the teams with average to below average QB's tend to get in more sporadically.

    It depends how much of an advantage you get by having the free cap space to sign other talent. If you're good in free agency it's huge to have a young, cheap QB who plays well. If you're not so good it won't matter.

    Once you have a top 10 guy, you typically aren't going to let them go since they're so hard to find and the league has become so QB driven that they're worth paying.
     
  7. OverloadBlitz

    OverloadBlitz Well-Known Member

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    Joe flacco doesn't belong in the same sentence as Matt Ryan, Flacco is just a great mediocre QB.
     
  8. The 1985er

    The 1985er Well-Known Member

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    Franchise QB doesn't =elite. I'd take a Flacco, Tannehill, Ryan, Cutler level QB. At least we'd be set at the position.
     
  9. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    If you can draft a franchise QB then by all means you should do it over any other position on the field. Unlike in the days of Sanchezs a QB costs you basically nothing for the first 5 years now. After that you can decide what you want to do with them and if they are really that good and you still don't want to pay them then you can probably trade them for 2 or 3 #1 picks.
     
  10. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    The comparison is they were both on Superbowl caliber teams that were forced to gut their roster to pay them now neither team is being talked about as a superbowl caliber team.

    I love Kap but I don't think he can carry a team if San fran is forced to pay 20+ mill the 49ers take a huge hit. Lokk at Greenbay a good team with an elite QB still struggling because they had to pay Rogers.

    The teams that seam to be the most successful today are either the teams with young QB that they did not have pay yet or the teams with a future HOF. I don't think teams can still be contenders paying their Qbs 10-20% of the cap.

    The cap rising can change all of that but I see one or two things happening the QB comp will flatten out or teams with the young talent and and a rookie contract Qb will be the future superbowl winners.
     
  11. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    For Baltimore it was worth it. They won a SB. Atlanta has to rebuild but they still have a young elite QB to build around. If you get over the hump it's worth it. Teams will get near the top and decline and rebuild. It's worth it if you actually grab the brass ring. I would be happy to see the Jets win a SB once every 10 years.
     
  12. OverloadBlitz

    OverloadBlitz Well-Known Member

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    If you want to discuss the cap implacations on these rediculous contracts that's a another beast altogether. In the last 5-6 years its become a custom to pay QB's rediculous amounts of money if they win a Superbowl. Only 3-4 QB's in the league, in my opinion, deserve that kind of money. The problem is like you said though, they eat 15-20% of your cap which is very detrimental to the depth of your team.

    Obviously something is going to change sooner rather than later when we see guys like Flacco get that money but NEVER be able to live up to that contract because he never deserved it in the first place. Message to all NFL teams, stop paying guys JUST because they are a part of a superbowl winning team. Pay them for what they do for their team as a whole.
     
  13. Poeman

    Poeman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but 8 out of 10 times having that great QB makes the difference in championship games over great defenses.

    You have to have a great defense and a top 15 QB to win a Super Bowl.

    Or

    a top 5 QB and average defense
     
  14. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Baltimore won the superbowl before paying up now they are paying the price. Atlanta has never won it and the gutting of their defense has left them 1-4 and might not even make the playoffs and they were a superbowl favorite.

    I think Seattle and Sf have until those rookie contracts come up to win one. Look at the Steelers.

    The only teams that are doing well with big QB contracts are Denver and NO.
     
  15. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    The facts tend to support your argument.
     
  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I'm not going to do the research on this so it's possible I'm wrong but I think having the big name QB is really important in terms of getting the calls you need to win from the officials.

    The NFL would shake their heads no on this but I think a marquee QB gets you looks from the officials that you wouldn't get with an average guy out there, especially in crunch time when the legend is about to be beaten by a lesser quality QB/team.
     
  17. WhySoSerious488

    WhySoSerious488 Well-Known Member

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    The Packers are not in any sort of trouble and should win 11+ games. Close road losses in Cincy and SF don't mean much. Rodgers will have that team win 10+ games every year, he's just too good to get anything less.

    But that highlights that there are really only 4 truly elite QBs (Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers). Guys like Luck and Wilson could one day join that group. Guys like Romo and Rivers have the talent but their organizations are generally inept and they have a knack for bad plays at the worst moments.

    Guys like Eli, Ben, and Flacco need very good teams around them (or play in a bad division) to even qualify for the playoffs. Good players, but they can't elevate a bad cast like the elite guys.
     
  18. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

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    SF is a great comparison. Looking at it I think our team is being built in that exact mold. SF and SEA mold.
     
  19. OverloadBlitz

    OverloadBlitz Well-Known Member

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    I would hope so, a great defense with a QB who has the potential to be great is how you establish a dynasty.
     
  20. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    If Geno turns out to be a Matt Ryan type QB when payday comes around that might mean no Richarsdon, Wilks or Coples.

    To me the Jets have a three year window to get to the superbowl.
     

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