Football Manufacturer Calls Bellicheck's Theory "Bullshit"

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by Falco21, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    So Patriots fans, lets assume you are correct. The Patriots balls lost air by halftime. In order for that theory to be correct, the 12 other additional balls in possession of the Colts in the same environment would experience the same/similar loss rate. However the NFL has already said that there was no change in the Colts footballs. Consequently, the only way half the footballs could have lost air was via a needle and not do to some sort laws of physics that only apply to the Patriots sidelines.
     
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  2. truthbtold

    truthbtold Well-Known Member

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    The "only way"??
    Easy tiger ... What about those Columbian drug gangs that framed OJ??
     
  3. JetsHuskers fan

    JetsHuskers fan Well-Known Member

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    Put the bong down.
     
  4. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Sorry my bad. OJ, forgive me!!!
     
  5. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    First of all, did the NFL actually report that, like you just stated? Or did some media member's anonymous source says that? Some of the information coming from those sources has already been found to be outright incorrect (e.g. "D'qwell Jackson reported the ball feeling underinflated") and other reports have directly contradicted each other (e.g. the reported ball pressures). It's all garbage as far as I'm concerned unless the NFL has officially reported it or confirmed it to be true.

    Secondly, if the Colts footballs were inflated to their desired pressure outside, on the field or the sidelines for instance, prior to being inspected then you would only expect a very minor pressure drop caused by the decreasing outdoor temperatures as it got later. This difference might not even be measurable. If they inflated the balls to their set pressure inside their locker room, as the Patriots claim to have done, then yes, you would expect a comparable drop in pressure (although still not necessarily the same resulting pressure).
     
  6. truthbtold

    truthbtold Well-Known Member

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    But seriously ... The Pats had nothing to do with this. It's all about the change in temperature. I had my doubts, but Bigfoot explained the whole thing to me on the UFO last night. If you want, I'll write an apology from you to the Pats fans. All you have to do is sign it :)
     
  7. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    I don't even know where to begin with this post.

    The ideal gas law is as follows:

    PV=nRT (P = absolute pressure, V = volume, n = quantity of gas in mols, R is a constant specific to this equation, T = absolute temperature)

    you can re-arrange this using algebra so that it looks as follows:

    (PV)/(nRT) = 1

    Since (PV)/(nRT) always equals '1', and '1' always has the same value, you can derive the following equation which applies to any container of gas, even one with an expanding membrane like a balloon:

    (P-initial*V-initial)/(n-initial*R*T-initial) = (P-final*V-final)/(n-final*R*T-final)

    If the amount of gas in that container stays constant (i.e. you don't add or remove any), the number of mols doesn't change, and the 'n's cancel out:

    (P-initial*V-initial)/(R*T-initial) = (P-final*V-final)/(R*T-final)

    Since, R is a constant, it cancels out as well:

    (P-initial*V-initial)/(T-initial) = (P-final*V-final)/(T-final)

    If the volume of the container doesn't change (which isn't 100% accurate with a football, but close), it cancels out too, and you end up with:

    (P-initial)/(T-initial) = (P-final)/(T-final)
    or
    (P-initial)/(P-final) = (T-initial)/(T-final)

    This is a very commonly used law in physics and chemistry which states that changes in Pressure and Temperature are proportionally related when you have a container of gas with a fixed volume and zero transfer of gas into or out of the container. This is an idealistic model of gas behavior that isn't always 100% accurate, but air is mostly composed of Nitrogen, which displays behavior very close to an ideal gas except for in very extreme conditions. So for this purpose, it's pretty accurate and reliable.

    It is entirely inaccurate when you try to act like these pressure changes are about air escaping out of leaks, or about the small volume of a football. Pressure and Temperature changes are proportionally related when there is NO TRANSFER IN OR OUT and NO CHANGE IN VOLUME, regardless of how little or big that volume is. You are correct that the mass doesn't change, but that is pretty much the only accurate piece of information in your entire post.

    When you decrease the absolute temperature (kelvins or rankine) of a football by 10%, the absolute pressure (PSIA or Pascals) will also drop by 10%. It is really that simple, and has nothing to do with leaking air or the volume of the football.

    And air leaking out of tires is much more closely related to time elapsed than it is to temperature. I would bet my life that the tire pressure chart I posted doesn't even try to account for pressure lost due to leakage. It is simply displaying the physics/chemistry effect that I explained above as it relates to automobile tires.
     
    #27 gopats88, Jan 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  8. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    I do.

    Neil Tyson deGrasse is a lot smarter than you and he doesn't believe it:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...science-from-belichick-patriots-doesnt-add-up

    Neil deGrasse Tyson: Science from Belichick, Patriots doesn't add up
    By John Breech | CBSSports.com
    January 26, 2015 6:01 pm ET
    [​IMG]
    A football filled with hot air would help explain Deflategate. (Getty Images)
    Bill Belichick might want to start consulting actual scientists before he gives detailed scientific explanations during his press conferences from now on.
    Over the weekend, Belichick gave a rather lengthy explanation for why New England's footballs were deflated during the AFC Championship.
    "You take that football and you set it outside and the football becomes accustomed to those climatic conditions and those temperatures, there's no way it's the same," Belichick said. "Now if you take it out and bring it back in and let it sit for X amount of time, then it probably is the same."
    Shortly after Belichick's press conference, Bill Nye the Science Guy said Belichick's explanation "Didn't make any sense."
    On Monday, noted astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson also decided to weigh-in on the matter.
    CBSSports.com also talked to an Ohio State professor who said it was highly unlikely the ball could go from 12.5 PSI to 10.5 PSI in a game that was played outdoors in 51 degree weather.
    What does all of this mean? It means that Belichick should probably hire a scientist before he decides to make any future speeches about science.
     
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  9. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    I agree with him 100%. Ambient temperature changes don't explain a 2 PSI decrease in temperature. I just haven't heard anything that conclusively states that most of the balls' pressures dropped by 2 PSI. The latest new that I've heard states that most of the balls might have only been 1 PSI lower, and that the only one that was 2 PSI below the limit was the one that was handled by the colts.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/
    This is partly what I was referring to when I mentioned how inconsistent and contradictory the reporting on this topic has been.
     
    #29 gopats88, Jan 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  10. Faux machine

    Faux machine Well-Known Member

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  11. klecko73

    klecko73 Guest

    Yes and the most reasonable explanation for this is fairly simple. Brady likes his footballs, in optimal conditions, at 12.5 PSI. He is on the record as saying that. In bad weather he likes them less inflated because it gives him a better grip. Hint: Every kid who has started throwing a football at the age of 10 knows that an under inflated football is easier to grip. An under inflated ball is also easier to catch in bad weather and for a runner to hold. I don't think the team knew but they certainly benefited from it based upon the fumble stats. As for who actually deflated, well that was the ball boy/equipment manager who put a needle in the balls after picking them up. They know that Brady likes the footballs underinflated and they just bleed some air out of it before the game. It takes less that 15 secs per ball to accomplish this. Kid is done in 3 mins and is on his way.

    Stop trying to make this overly complicated. Your QB is a cheater. The NFL proscribes inflation rates for footballs BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. Brady made this worse by lying about. Had he just said what I said above this would have been much ado about nothing considering the spanking the Colts received. Instead because Belichicken and Brady - who is an ungrateful and lying sack of shit who has angered the football gods - insults our collective intelligence by lying through their teeth.

    I know this is frustrating for a Pats fan, who knows that their first three Super Bowls are tainted and now if they win this one it is tainted as well. Without those, you are just like us miserable Jets fans except we have one Super Bowl to your none. Consequently you have to hold on to this as long as you can. Within a few years, if Belichicken and Brady aren't suspended next year, those two bastards will be gone and the Patriots will return the nether regions of the football world. Don't worry, we are saving a seat for you bastards when you fall off your high horse and holier than thou "Patriots Way" arrogance.
     
  12. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    Okay, so now you've ditched your attempts to use science and facts to prove your point, and have reverted back to wild speculation and baseless accusations that coincidentally fall right into line with your history as a Patriots-hating Jets fan? A 1 PSI pressure drop can easily be explained by environmental conditions, but you have no interest in having that discussion do you? But it's me who is having trouble coping with my position in this as a member of a certain fan-base?

    Of course the version that you want to be true is the simplest and most obvious one. It shocks me that you would say that [\s]

    I'm not denying the possibility that the Patriots tried to game the system and use balls that were under-inflated. If the facts end up pointing in that direction with no reasonable alternative explanations, then I will admit this is the case and move on despite being mildly disappointed in my favorite team's behavior. But I'm not ready to call rumors "facts" yet, and right now anyone can look at the assortment of different rumors and come to any conclusion that they like about what happened. It's obvious which conclusion you want to be proven true, but that's not how things always work.
     
  13. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Don't be baited by the Pat douchebag trolls.

    _
     
  14. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  15. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    Oh the ironing.

    Stfu.

    _
     
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  16. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    Oh, I certainly am biased as well. And yes, there is an explanation that I would prefer to come forward as being the truthful one. But I'm not trying to hide my bias, or pretend that my preferred version is the "obvious" one, or the only reasonable explanation. The facts right now are very unclear, and at least I am willing to acknowledge that.
     
  17. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I will acknowledge is that the facts as you imagine them to be are very clear to you.

    There are no "clear" facts on any side of this issue.

    _
     
  18. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    yeah, "unclear" is what I meant. Edited.
     
  19. rammagen

    rammagen Well-Known Member

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    I agree except basic physics tells us the outside air temp would need to be in the teens or the air in the foot ball would have need to have been 125 degrees when the balls were filed
     
  20. gopats88

    gopats88 Member

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    See my earlier post.
    http://forums.theganggreen.com/thre...cks-theory-bullshit.83288/page-2#post-3182783

    Recent reports have disputed the previously reported account that most of the balls were measured to be 2 PSI under the limit. Sources say that 10 of those balls may have been only about 1 PSI under the limit, which would change that temperature range significantly and make it much more realistic. I have no idea what the real pressures were, but at this point it is silly to trust any of these numbers.
     

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