Fields, Wilson, Jones, Trask, Lance (Volume 3)

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Brook!, Apr 8, 2021.

?

Who would you pick at #2?

  1. Fields

    26.8%
  2. Wilson

    58.8%
  3. Other - Please Explain

    2.1%
  4. Trade Down

    12.4%
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  1. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Clemson's D sucked all year. they switched up a lot because they couldn't stop a nose bleed and were trying to find something to work
     
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  2. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    If my memory serves me right, wasn't Tua College career also shadowed by major injury concerns? I don't remember nearly as much discussion about that by the media although it was a significant injury . Nor didn't seem to bother Miami's CS and GM, two highly praised leaders every one seems to rave about now, for using the 5th pick. In fact they were highly praised.
     
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  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    he did fall. he was 1OA until the injury but still went top 5. it was a freak injury but a major one. from what i remember it was his only injury. I was never sold on tua though. still not sold on him.
     
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Oh ok. So just go ahead and change your argument because it's wrong. Most P5 teams play defense that resembles an NFL defense a lot closer than G5 teams. It's all wide open in the small conferences because they just don't have the athleticism in the back four to keep up with superior athletes on the other side of the ball.
     
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  5. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    For the he holds on to the ball crowd. In 2021, I much rather be grouped with the QBs near the bottom of this list than those near the top. 5-10 years ago getting rid of the ball quickly was very important. However, with the new rules that essentially criminalize defenders for even looking at QBs the wrong way, I don’t view value it as much as I used to.

    1. B. Roethlisberger 2.32
    2. R. Fitzpatrick 2.38
    3. N. Foles 2.51
    4. T. Tagovailoa 2.55
    5. D. Haskins 2.55
    6. T. Brady 2.57
    7. J. Garoppolo 2.57
    8. M. Glenn on 2.58
    9. A. Smith 2.63
    10. M. Stafford 2.65
    11. J. Burrow 2.65
    12. D. Brees 2.66
    13. M. Trubisky 2.66
    14. J. Herbert 2.69
    15. R. Tannehill 2.69
    16. A. Rodgers 2.72
    17. K. Murray 2.74
    18. J. Goff 2.76
    19. D. Jones 2.76
    20. G. Minshew 2.77
    21. D. Prescott 2.77
    22. D. Carr 2.78
    23. C. Newton 2.84
    24. D. Watson 2.85
    25. S. Darnold 2.85
    26. M. Ryan 2.87
    27. D. Lock 2.87
    28. K. Cousins 2.88
    29. J. Flacco 2.88
    30. P. Mahomes 2.89
    31. C. Wentz 2.91
    32. R. Wilson 2.97
    33. L. Jackson 2.98
    34. J. Allen 3.04
    35. T. Bridgewater 3.05
    36. J. Hurts 3.11
     
  6. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Idk if that's true... I think you'd have to actually watch those teams play defense to say that's true. I wasn't changing my argument. Clemson couldn't find a defensive system that worked in 2020
     
  7. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    How is Fields accused of both holding on to the ball too long in general and against the blitz as well as running at the first sign of trouble. These 2 narratives seem to contradict each other.
     
  8. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    .

    It didn’t bother MIA just like it appears as though it doesn’t bother NYJ. However, was a major topic of discussion in the media. Wilson’s injury has not been discussed at all in the media. It’s discussed more among the fan base. Note this is fan message board not a media one.
     
  9. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    You've done this a few times in response to Fields holding the ball too long. You can't just name guys who have succeeded despite it and thus frame it as a good thing. It's a bad thing. Is Fields good enough to overcome it? I don't know, but let's not act like it's a good thing.
     
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  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    3 of the top 6 are superbowl champs with a total of 10 SB wins between them. there is also a difference in letting a play develop compared to not knowing what to do with the ball
     
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  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    They absolutely don't contradict, you are misstating it. Fields holds the ball too long when not pressured. When pressured, Fields throws the ball less than 40% of the time. The usual outcome is a sack or scramble when he's pressured. He holds the ball for a very long time without pressure and usually scrambles or is sacked when pressured.
     
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  12. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    You state matters of preference, style and opinion as though they are morally right or wrong/bad or good. It’s not a “bad thing” or a good one. That is determined by scheme. OSU does not run a quick passing attack with Fields like the did with Haskins before him. With Fields they elected to attack further down the field to take advantage of his intermediate and deep ball accuracy and his ability to by time in the pocket. If you have a quick passing game and you are holding on to the ball, that’s bad. However, if you are holding on to the ball because your offense is meant to attack downfield, that’s just expected.
     
  13. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    When under pressure Fields holds the ball longer, runs far more than the other to QBs, throws the ball a lot less and takes a lot more sacks at a much higher rate than other Qbs. These are facts not accusations. So yes he does hold the ball to long and take unnecessary sacks and he also does run under pressure a lot more. These are not contradictions but part of a consistent picture that Fields performs much worse under pressure than the other top QBs. But when a QB only throws the ball 60 percent of time while under pressure that there alone simply tells you he is doing poorly.
     
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  14. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    All 3 weren’t in 2021. If you want to start your franchise in the modern age trying to model broken down Big Ben, Nick “Lightning in a Bottle” Foles and the outliers or outliers Brady be my guess. Just do it for another team not make the NY Jets.
     
  15. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    They are narratives without context.
     
  16. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    It's not an opinion that holding the ball longer on average is worse. Time to throw numbers have been steadily decreasing league wide for years. Is that because it's worse to throw it more quickly?
     
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  17. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    here are some scouts responses to the debate

    1) One AFC East scout said he would draft Wilson at No. 2 even though he considered Fields the better athlete.

    “Zach processes much better than Fields and he’s more accurate,” the scout said. “Wilson is just not as big and strong as Fields, he’s like Superman. He’s super strong, big and fast. He just holds the ball a little bit. The person I thought about was Jalen Hurts. It’s something Fields can overcome, but it’s not my preference.”

    2) Greg Cosell, NFL analyst and senior producer at NFL Films, also gave Wilson the edge.

    “Wilson has a far better feel for the timing and rhythm of the pass game. I think he’s a more accurate thrower,” Cosell said. “I think Wilson has better second reaction ability in terms of moving and throwing. Fields is a better runner, but I think that as far as moving and throwing, Wilson is much better than Fields. Wilson is more refined than Fields.”

    Cosell said Fields’s physical traits were elite, but that his weakness was how quickly he reads defenses.

    “From a physical standpoint, there’s nothing he can’t do. You’re dealing with a kid who has a big arm, he’s a specimen. He’s a very talented kid and a high level traits guy,” Cosell said. “He kind of tended to be a bit late on some throws. At times he didn’t show a natural feel for the timing and anticipation that’s required. His recognition is a bit slow, I think his field vision needs work.”
     
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  18. Big Cat

    Big Cat Well-Known Member

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    While we’re on the subject of running QBs being injury prone, Wilson needs to learn to slide ASAP. I know we say that about every QB, but some of the shit that guy pulls in the open field is ridiculous, especially at his frame. I’ve seen him attempt multiple hurdles over guys standing straight up and he ends a ton of runs by lowering his throwing shoulder into defenders. He’s going to get killed if he doesn’t stop.
     
  19. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    You're honestly acting like Wilson is a Big Ben, Foles or Brady clone? Lol. Wilson is very athletic. He's not as athletic as Fields but Wilson would literally be one of the quickest QB's in the league immediately.
     
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  20. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, more evidence the processing thing isn't just a TGG fabrication. Who'd have thought? It's almost like we have good reasons for believing what we do about Fields.
     
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