Fields, Wilson, Jones, Trask, Lance (Volume 3)

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Brook!, Apr 8, 2021.

?

Who would you pick at #2?

  1. Fields

    26.8%
  2. Wilson

    58.8%
  3. Other - Please Explain

    2.1%
  4. Trade Down

    12.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,265
    Likes Received:
    7,166
    Like Darnold before him if/when Wilson turns out to be a dud, all these Zach super fans in the media who suddenly care about the Jets’ getting the best QB available will blame the Jets not Zach. No way they were wrong; it will the organization that ruined him.
     
  2. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,265
    Likes Received:
    7,166
    Fields has never faced adversity?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,631
    Likes Received:
    10,895
    I honestly think this is a ridiculous question, not because I like Wilson but because it just is a ridiculous question. Is your alternative to take a player with tons of flaws because he hasn't "peaked"?

    What about Trevor Lawrence? Has he not "peaked"?

    I don't get this question at all
     
  4. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,631
    Likes Received:
    10,895
    LOL

    I'm at a loss on that question also
     
  5. Kryoptix

    Kryoptix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2020
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    By adversity it's not a about a game or a bad hit.

    I am talking about bad losing streaks and yes Fields has never experienced it.

    And I have nothing against it btw but if we start finding ridiculous red flags everywhere...might as well point that out.
     
  6. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    20,758
    You’re like a bowl of Wheaties, gotta start off every morning right!
     
    bicketybam, Noam and legler82 like this.
  7. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    51,158
    Likes Received:
    22,521
    Few quarterbacks drafted at the top of the first round ever learn what a losing streak is until they are drafted into the NFL to a team that has probably established a pattern of losing. They have spent their lives winning football games and being the best player on the field.
     
  8. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    51,158
    Likes Received:
    22,521
    Just like Cowherd with Darnold. Exactly like that.
     
    legler82 likes this.
  9. Kryoptix

    Kryoptix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2020
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    Yes. I should have mentioned I have no issue with that. I would rather have a QB winning everything than losing many games. It's just people are bringing fake red flags that we should be worried like that Wilson has peaked I am just pointing out that finding ridiculous red flags on any QB is easy and pointless.
     
    Noam likes this.
  10. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    20,758
    The thing is the Jets DID fail Darnold. There’s a reason he didn’t fizzle out like all the other ones we fucked up. He got traded for multiple picks and the general consensus is that he’s a talented player that the Jets did absolutely nothing to help develop. I know it’s fun to be miserable around here for some, but I’d much rather just wait to see what happens rather than pretend I know how Wilson will turn out end also know what the Jets will do around him.
     
    Noam likes this.
  11. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,265
    Likes Received:
    7,166
    Cowherd is not alone. Darnold has a ton of fans out there in the NFL draft punditry.
     
    REVISion likes this.
  12. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,265
    Likes Received:
    7,166
    Darnold played his part.
     
    NCJetsfan and REVISion like this.
  13. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    51,158
    Likes Received:
    22,521
    Yes they did, in spectacular fashion, a point that is easily dismissed by those that take comfort in thinking that he was just bad and without potential and completely without the ability to recover.

    Joe Douglas had a larger part to do with that than a lot of people are willing to discuss. To that point, I see no logical reason to expect him to make the best decisions going forward in all situations.
     
    ouchy and ConcordeChops like this.
  14. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    20,758
    Of course he did, but find a 21 year old QB who needs development that has overcome even half the bullshit the Jets threw at him. You don’t find one. We fucked him up beyond belief in ways you’d never think an NFL team could fuck a QB up. Again, there’s a reason the wide general consensus was that Darnold could still be a starting QB in the right circumstance.

    I can semi agree with this. Douglas played a role but by the time he got here, the damage was done. He couldn’t fire Gase which was the ultimate issue. He could’ve given him more but what? Robby Anderson? I know people here love him but if we re-signed Robby Anderson, Darnold would still be gone today.
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  15. BakerMaker

    BakerMaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    664
    I gotta disagree with you MeanDean sorry. It isn't stupid throws if they are designed to utilize the height advantage and mismatches by the coaching staff, why wouldn't you throw jumpballs if you know it is working routinely each time? That's like getting angry at Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields for hitting RB screen after RB screen for 1st downs+. These kids aren't thinking "Gotta put NFL tape out there", they are solely focused in on winning. It's why I think Fields is better than others give him credit for, he is following the script of the sidelines and hitting some safer designed routes that his superior talent like Olave and Paris Campbell got to feast on, that doesn't mean Fields is dumb, it means Ryan Day(And Dabo Sweeney) control what is going on and don't allow freedom. I heard the same complaints on Deshaun Watson running a system that is dumbed down, then low and behold, when given freedom he can show the tools and Moxy (on the field) to be a great QB.

    I still like Darnold in some sense but he had more turnovers and fumble problems at USC and had a "Superman" syndrome of trying to do too much, Wilson has some of this in some regards but I think the coaching staff will put him in spots where he can on the run throw strikes to different set pieces all over the field. None of this one field to another throw. What helps the Jets here is guys like Denzel Mims & Corey Davis have strong catch radius that will help win the 1 on 1 battles going upfront.

    Some of the throws shown on Wilson's tape do translate over to the NFL, he just needs seasoning with his eyes to shake off spies & guys who try and deceive him. Darnold's problem was when put as a traditional pocket passer, the mental side had him overthink and not be one step ahead and often saw him throw in tight spots that weren't necessary. Darnold was at his best in 2 minute drills with the pace up and not having to give into what Gase and Co. wanted to run or when throwing on the run when the pocket collapsed and the play has essentially broken and it's improvising on the run. I 1000% agree with Khalil, the idea that the coaching staff has to take in full reigns when calling a QB's game in 2020 is laughable.

    The frame/durability is a legit concern but he's a 21 year old kid who is still growing body wise, in a pro NFL conditioning weight room, he can easily tack on 10+ pounds of muscle, which he better in a 17+ game season. People are nuts to think he's staying at this weight his entire time in the NFL. Russell Wilson bulked up from NC State as he became a Seahawk, particularly on the lower strength area. I think body wise Russell Wilson is the best comparison for Zach Wilson as far as him not being a finished product frame wise. I think him getting to around 220 is feasible in due time. Most people going later in the 20's end up getting physically stronger naturally, the kid is still a college body.

    I think Zach Wilson can be very good, not sure if he's no.2 pick great admittedly but I think under the system that's being implemented, it's a great fit and we will have a coaching staff that are going to play on the strengths on the QB rather than fully dictate how the offense should go. It becomes important the OLine and running game are reliable. The one thing I do wish is Zach Wilson not playing right away, I would have had this be more of an open competition with the veteran QB(Mullens?) vs Wilson and unless Wilson was overwhelmingly better or it is a tiebreaker, that Wilson sits, builds up muscle wise and digests the game on the sidelines. The last 3 failures of Sanchez/G Smith/Darnold all had the QBs start Week 1 fresh out the gates and sure it can be done and I know the no.2 pick will have people chomp the bit to see him in the game asap but seeing him get a (minor) bench ride to open the season is more up my alley unless he's overwhelmingly the best option for the team.
     
  16. BakerMaker

    BakerMaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    664
    And why do people still take Colin Cowherd seriously? He's terrible and has a bias in this QB class because his daughter is dating Trey Lance. The lack of competition and "Who did he beat" drumming he does against Wilson isn't brought up vs Lance for this reason and he raves about his character and hasn't backed off putting him at no.3 due to preferential treatment. Add that Darnold was shipped out and made his take look poor, Cowherd does this for clicks and for views, nothing more. I don't really bite much of what is thrown out by the national media pundits, following guys like Daniel Jeremiah are fair enough game but panicking because Colin Cowherd isn't high on Wilson is nothing to be alarmed at.

    The raving he had of Justin Fields slaying mighty, mighty Clemson is hilarious. Fields is going to be very good(I am in the camp of both Fields and Wilson being very good, might be a very, very small camp) but cmon, Ian Book of Notre Dame lit up that Clemson defense for over 300 yards round 1 and Book has a late Day 3 grade AT BEST. The Tigers defense isn't the reason they were in the playoffs, they had a down year as a unit. Fields did what he should have done, the shot he took was tough as hell though, he's got the best body and stature of all the QBs this draft class for me, even over Lance.
     
    Poeman, NCJetsfan, patleahy and 2 others like this.
  17. BakerMaker

    BakerMaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    664
    Darnold was a flawed pocket passer since USC, he was an athlete first, quarterback second. That isn't me saying he's dumb but Adam Gase who is a traditionalist kept slamming a square peg into a round circle slot and thought it would work. Any QB guru or signal caller worth a damn doesn't try and go against what a QB excels at which is Darnold on the run improving throws or using his feet to convert or having him throw with feel rather than expecting him to hit with accuracy. Buffalo coaching staff knows what Josh Allen can and maybe cannot do, the Jets continuously kept throwing a Peyton Manning tailored playbook at Darnold and expected him to get results off of it. The lack of motion in this day of age at the line is laughable, it was like watching an offense a decade behind the times. The lack of creativity 95% of the time and inability to let Darnold audible off poor calls and seeing the defense sniff out the wonderful playcalling is high school esque.

    Douglas wouldn't do shit besides maybe fire Gase sooner, then that'd reward the malcontent Gregg Williams with the interim job, which is why Williams even signed up for the gig to begin with. Chris Johnson made a terrible hire with Gase, he failed Darnold. Douglas got a OT and WR that look to be key parts of the future with his very first two picks. Signed Perriman who wasn't THAT far off Robbie Anderson just missed games with injuries.

    All the trade ups and dud picks by McCagnnan, including sacrificing 3 2nd's hurt the depth and thus Darnold was hurt by the very trade up that got him to New York.
     
    NCJetsfan and ColoradoContrails like this.
  18. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,802
    Likes Received:
    8,154
    Looking forward to seeing you rallying around Zach in 4 days.
     
    bicketybam and Noam like this.
  19. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    20,758
    Something tells me we’ll be seeing Fields updates before Wilson support from a lot of folks here.
     
    REVISion and bicketybam like this.
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,484
    Likes Received:
    21,644
    Excellent post! And I agree with the desire to have Wilson sit at first, unless he clearly shows that he's the best option and can handle the speed and power of the pro game.
     
    NCJetsfan and patleahy like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page