Do what it takes to get mike evans

Discussion in 'Draft' started by jerseyjay14, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    If Blackmon didn't turn out to be a drunk...... yes
     
  2. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    The Problem lies in that you think Evans is that much better than anyone else in this draft and he's not. hell he's not even the number 1 guy in the draft, Watkins is. There is not AJ Green or Calvin Johnson in this draft so there is no player worth spending multiple picks on to acquire when we badly need depth.

    I think this receiver class is very deep and talented I nthe first couple of rounds. We need multiple players to round out our roster so this works much to our advantage,

    As for all the "extra picks" as of now we have TB's 3rd and? Quit counting comp picks as if they are handed out and remember that they will be later round picks and can't be traded.
     
  3. Steve032

    Steve032 New Member

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    I agree to an extent, as long as we don't mortgage too many picks. We might have 8-10 draft picks and we will be active in FA. I don't see any way that all 8-10 draft picks will even make our roster, so I don't mind trading 1 or 2
     
  4. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Here's the problem with that line of thought. Which of the 8 to 10 draft picks won't make the roster and contribute? The ones you actually keep and execute or the picks you don't make?

    So if the thesis is that only 5 or 6 picks are likely to make the roster then what you want to do is make the most picks possible and have the best 5 or 6 make the roster. That's how you get a deep talented roster.

    If you trade up and reduce your number of overall picks then you may well have the same number of people make the roster but the last few guys are only making the roster because you didn't execute all your picks.

    When Vlad Ducasse is part of a 4 pick draft he's making the roster, even if he was a mistake on draft day. As part of a 7 pick draft, well the RT you took in the 6th round might blow everybody away in camp and put Vlad in perspective. At worst you have that guy plus Vlad as depth for a year or two. If you never make that 6th round pick then you're always going to be looking at Vlad in a different light.

    When Joe McKnight gets traded up for and taken in the 4th round, well he's going to be on the roster. The guy you never took with the 6th round pick can't compete with him and the team loses talent in the process instead of gaining it.

    The only constant thing that is true is that if you consistently trade away draft picks your team is going to be less talented than it otherwise would be because you're going to have a bunch of UDFA's on the bottom of the roster taking up spots that would likely otherwise accumulate from low draft picks.
     
  5. GreenDore

    GreenDore New Member

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    Not a fan of Evans at all. He disappears for games at a time . A lot of his success was Manziel scrambling giving him years to get open . Auburn and Bama both have bad secondaries don't care about those games . He got shut down by Missouri , MTSU, ole miss , Vandy , and lsu . Really not impressed by him he's just a big body with solid ball skills . Manziel made him what he was hope the jets do not pick , just look at his game by game stats he either goes nuts vs small corners who can't handle him or has about 30 yards on 4 catches and is a non factor . That being said I think he is a decent reciever just not a #1 .
     
  6. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias Well-Known Member

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    Don't trade up. If he there's at 18, get him. Otherwise look at another option.

    Look what happened last time we traded up for a receiver. We got Hill.
     
  7. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Some people never learn.
     
  8. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    1) i disagree heavily the evans isnt much better then everyone else. I think he will end up being the best non-QB offesnive player in this draft and a large margin. Can't miss pro bowler and potentially in that fitzgerald/calvin johnson type class. i think it is an enormous drop off from there...especially in certainty

    2) We will have 10 picks, gauranteed 2 third rounders, and likely another 3rd or 4th round compensation pick. im not sure how you could conclude otherwise. We dont need to trade the compensation picks, we would have 8 of our own we could trade.
     
  9. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. we would be smart to move up in round 1 and/or trade a pick this year for future pick(s).

    no way 10 rookies make this team.
     
  10. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    OR...

    you combine 2 picks to trade up for a higher pick to draft a player you are positive WILL make the roster and have a big impact. or trade this years picks for a pick in the future in a higher round
     
  11. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    He is more then just a "big guy". he is an elite route runner. one of the best ive ever seen. he is a cant miss star in the NFL. if we have a chance to get him and dont we are going to regret it. especially if we take someone like lee instead. that guy isnt 1/2 the player
     
  12. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    completely different situation. for hill we traded up in the second round to get a guy who was raw and played in a college system.

    this would be entirely different
     
  13. GreenDore

    GreenDore New Member

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    Sorry but have you actually watched Evans play ? He is well known as a poor route runner who comes out of his cuts slowly . He has amazing ball skills and body control . Not sure why you think he's the next coming of megatron though
     
  14. chadsrightarm

    chadsrightarm New Member

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    Struggled in the first half tonight against Duke and got a public talking to from Johnny Football before settling down and contributing some to their miraculous come back.

    Not sure he showed the temperament to handle the pressure of playing in NY... but he's played well against Alabama on a few occasions so torn on him.
     
  15. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    And half the time that you make that trade up you get Shonn Greene or Stephen Hill or Joe McKnight and the guy is basically a filler for a few years and then drops out. All the eggs in one basket turns into a scrambled mess on the ground and your roster is short talent.

    I can't emphasize this enough. The NFL is all about Not For Long. A few players beat the odds and maybe half of them manage to stick around for 5 years or so. In that reality the way to get ahead is to make a lot of draft picks and have as many shots at having players stick around as possible.

    Trading up is a sucker bet. You break even if you win it and you lose otherwise.
     
  16. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    There really is no need to trade up, we all know that with the exception of the first 4 or 5 picks, the draft never plays out like the experts claim it will, I'm all for keeping our picks and just get as many players as possible and pick up players via free agency also.

    We should be capable of filling holes and adding depth.

    The team that was fielded this year was built using all of our picks and adding through FA and they did a good job, use the same strategy for this upcoming year, it works.
     
  17. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Guys we have to also remember that Alabama plays man coverage as their primary defensive strategy, good receivers will put up good numbers against those type of defenses.

    What I would like to see is how he plays against the cover 2 and different zone defenses, can he find the soft spots, is he on the same page as the QB when blitz is coming, there are many things that we don't have access to, that the scouts do.

    Based on what our FO did with last years draft, I really believe Idzik, bradway and company will do a good job with the draft, and now Idzik is here from the beginning that will allow him to have better input on how the draft board looks.
     
  18. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    When you have 9 or 10 picks, trading 1 of them to move up is hardly "putting all your eggs in one basket". this isnt the hershel walker or ricky williams trade we are talking about here.

    Losing the #68 pick isnt going to submarine a draft you have 9 or 10 picks in.
     
  19. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

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    which is exactly why i want to trade up. i think he goes much higher then where he is projected.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    It's about discipline. When you make the decision to trade up for a player in the 1st round because he's better than what you think you're going to get at your pick you are making two assumptions:

    1. That your ability to evaluate talent is flawless. In other words that the guy you trade up for will be better than the guy you might get down lower because you know how things are going to turn out once the pedal hits the metal in the NFL.

    2. That the other people drafting against you are also flawless. In other words that they won't make mistakes that push talent down to you at your pick.

    Both assumptions are wrong and show a lack of discipline.

    Your ability to evaluate talent is not flawless and Alshon Jeffery will be better than Stephen Hill a lot of the time.

    Other peoples ability to evaluate talent is not flawless and they'll often let Ed Reed get down to the latter stages of the 1st round. (Or Alshon Jeffery to drop to the 3rd round)

    The value to the franchise in maintaining a disciplined approach is that you actually get to exercise the 68 pick as well as your 1st round pick and frequently the 68 pick will turn into a real player. Sometimes it will turn into a star.

    The other thing is that once your discipline breaks and you begin trading up for players it is hard to stop. How can you not trade up next year if the same conditions that applied this year are in place? How many years will you be sitting there on a pick and not have somebody still on the board with 10 picks to go that you just *know* is going to be a big star or at least much better than anybody who will be there at your pick?

    Maintain discipline and over time you build a deep talented roster. Break discipline and the NFL will bring you low because it's a meat-grinder and if you're not trying to have a deep talented roster the default is usually a thin untalented one instead.
     

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