Defense

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jojo, Sep 27, 2022.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Counting "pressures" like they do is like if they counted passes that a receiver almost catches as receptions.
     
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  2. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    If anything any JETS fan should know after watching Brady the past 2 decades, is that the end results of "pressures" and "sacks" arent even close ;)
     
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  3. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Pressures are important. QB rating drops on average by 32 points while under pressure. Turnovers go up. Sacks increase. Pressures are also a much more reliable and repeatable event than a sack. Does it reduce QB rating to zero? No, but it makes things a lot better for a defense. The problem with pressures is the same problem with defense in the modern game. No matter how well the defense plays the offense will beat you if the offense plays at a high level. Just look at Joe Burrow. He was negating our rush with quick passes and when pressured scrambling. His accurate thread the needle passes were negating our good coverage. when a QB plays that well they are hard to beat.Look at George Pickens he beat our tight coverage on 3rd down many times. We played well but when an offense executes that well you have to tip your cap to them.

    Tell Zach Wilson that pressures do not matter. He was pressured 22 times. During those pressures he was unable to complete passes to WRs that would have been open. Our results suffered because of pressures greatly. But also look at Zach Wilson when a QB plays at a high level. The last two drives he and the offense executed. Pittsburgh played really good defense but Zach was putting balls into very tight windows, getting rid of the ball quickly and receivers were catching the ball. when an offense plays that well a defense has a hard time stopping them. Yes, pressures matter but an offense playing at an elite level will be hard to stop no matter how well a defense plays.

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    https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-importance-of-pressure-its-not-all-about-sacks
     
  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Note that I never said that pressures were not important...they just aren't nearly as important as actual sacks. Sacks are WAY more important than pressures. The teams that generate higher sack counts almost always have top ranked defenses. Pressures are "almost sacks", and the only things that count "almost" are horseshoes and hand grenades.
     
    #84 ColoradoContrails, Oct 4, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
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  5. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if they split QB pressures into two sub categories: pressures that ended up with a negative result for the defense (positive yards plays) and pressures that result in a positive result for the defense (incomplete pass, int, no yards, etc.)
     
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  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that would be helpful.
     
  7. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind there are different types of pressure too. There is normal pressure and then there is extreme pressure the type that Zach Wilson has faced the last year where it seems like the 2+ rushers are in his face and he is literally running for his life. I look at the type of pressure Zach faced yesterday and never see other QBs facing pressure like that. Normally, it is one guy not the entire DL. It seems our OL gives up more unblocked free runs at the QB than any team I have ever seen.
     
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  8. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    To add to your observations, in addition to simply bad execution or communication, or we have had a high number of unbelievable dumb, unnecessary penalties on third down stops that extended the plays, and a few horrible calls to boot on third down, that negated once again a perfectly legal tackle and stop on third down. Same n the other side of the ball, drops, execution, unnecessary penalties, and some shitty refereeing, like two major in bound first downs catches that they called out of bounds.
     
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  9. AtlantaJet

    AtlantaJet Active Member

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    To be fair we played against mobile QBs: Jackson, Brissett, Trubisky, Picket.....even Burrow was very mobile during his game with the Jets.
     
  10. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I see these charts but I have a bunch of issues with it…

    - first, I don’t think anybody needs some stats to convince them that a QB will play better when he has a clean pocket with no pressure than when he’s being rushed and pressured, right? Common sense. We all agree. It’s better to pressure than not. What these charts are trying to do is quantify how much better, and that’s where the subjective news comes in

    - the first point I would make is that a sack takes that rating down to zero, right? It ends the play and results in a loss of yards. So a sack is much better than a pressure, unless that pressure leads to either a fumble by the QB or an interception. Otherwise the sack is better.

    - there is subjectivity in determining how to count a pressure. Maybe that is defined somewhere by PFF, but I don’t know what that definition is. So does it mean one DL makes the QB take a sidestep over or a step back? Is it 2 DL making the QB spin out or escape the pocket? Or is it just normal pass rush where a DL may get a hand on the QB as he’s pushed by him? I don’t know honestly, and I’m assuming PFF does define it somehow, but it just seems like a false sense of precision because in the end it’s subjective, unlike a sack which is definitive.

    - I also agree that it would be way more meaningful to understand how many times the pressure results in bad play for the offense as opposed to just the QB spins away or escapes the pocket and completes a pass anyway.

    so again, I’m not saying pressures aren’t good or that they don’t matter. Of course they do.

    my issue is that sometimes stats are put forth to make a case but it’s still just a subjective view. And I think too often pressures are used to try and prop up a player or a team just to show hey look, we’re not that bad, look at all our pressures! When what’s really needed are sacks and actual drive ending or game changing plays.

    I’d be curious to see sack rates next to pressure rates by team…it would be interesting to see. Do the teams with the highest pressure rates also get the most sacks? That would indicate a strong pass rushing team. Or do some teams with high pressure rates actually have low sack rates, which would seem to indicate a weak,pass rushing team. I don’t know what the correlation is…

    so sure, pressures matter, but to me actual sacks matter more. Pressure rates just seem like an excuse to justify a player or a coach or a system that is not actually getting to the QB enough…
     
  11. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Remember the Sack exchange? Well sacks make a difference... If your a team like that QBs and coaches are worring all week... when sacks come they fire up the D and O and crowd. Pressures matter for sure but scaks matter more, its just that simple.
     
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  12. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    Off season needs.

    MLB
    OT1
    FS
    DT2
    DE1
     
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  13. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I looked at the single game ratings & QBR of the quarterbacks we faced so far...

    Lamar Jackson - 98.4 RTG / 65.9 QBR
    Jacoby Brissett - 98.9 RTG / 80.7 QBR
    Joseph Burrow - 114.9 RTG / 63.7 QBR
    Mitch Trubisky - 41.8 RTG / 7.5 QBR
    Kenny Pickett - 65.1 RTG / 28.3 QBR

    For comparison...
    Zach Wilson - 59.0 RTG / 53.2 QBR


    The only conclusion I came up with is that Mitch Trubisky sucks... :confused:
     
  14. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Nania has always relied way too heavily on obscure "stats" to justify his own opinion that the Jets are better than their record proves; now that he cannot get the numbers to prove his point he falls back to "bad luck." That's pretty weak stuff - guys either make the plays or they don't.
     
  15. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Can we add defensive pass interference and defensive holding to the negative result category?
     
  16. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    I believe "positive yards plays" covers that.
     

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