Deebo Samuel Watch (Deebo asked SF to be traded)

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Snatch Catch, Apr 19, 2022.

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  1. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Out of 10 guys you mentioned half (Ruggs, Jeudy, Ridley, Harry, Davis) had less than 500 yards last year. Brown and Mike Williams crossed 1000 yards finally in the 3d year, with first two so so years. Chase, Waddle, Moore looks to be sustainable stars, and they had higher draft profile than the guys in this draft. So yeah, there is a big difference between Deebo and Wilson/London when it comes to Zach's development this year. 2023 is not that far away. Deebo will still be on rookie contract this year, hitting high contract during the time you yourself said we need to peak, and before Zach is due for a major contract. Timing is perfect to get a really great WR. Help Zach develop faster AND get paid starting in 2023 while Zach is on a rookie deal.

    Again I point you to Allen, Murray, and now Burrow, who took a major leap when a major receiver joined the team. Unfortunately a rookie WR is unlikely to be a superstar right away, like Chase, and it might hinder Zach's development. Don't take me wrong, I think chances of getting Deebo are small, and I am hoping WR we get in the draft develops quickly. Looking at the evidence though it will probably take some time.
     
    #141 Borat, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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  2. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    It doesn't matter whether or not JD has spent excessively to date. Spending excessively in free agency is a losing strategy that the Jets have employed frequently while continuing to lose.

    Note that in the Deebo Samuel case not only would the Jets be spending excessively to acquire another team's headache but they would be giving up draft picks to do it. It would be the worst kind of "free agent signing" for a bad team to make.
     
  3. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Deebo knows Lance is garbage and he’s worried about his production taking a nose dive in a contract year..
     
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  4. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I included Davis and Harry as the guys who haven't produced a ton so not sure why include them in this post, and Ruggs and Ridley either went to jail or were suspended early in the season so I don't understand including them either. Both were either on pace for good seasons or had produced a lot in the past prior to their arrest/suspension. Jeudy missed much of the season last year after suffering a high ankle sprain in week 1, but he had 856 yards his first season. Williams didn't hit 1,000 yards until his third season, sure, but he was injured his entire first season and hit 660 yards his 2nd season.

    So we're back to only Davis and Harry who didn't produce a lot without dealing with extenuating circumstances.

    Also you can't mention how Chase and Waddle had higher draft profiles without also mentioning that out of the 10 guys I listed, 6 of them went 12th, 15th, 25th, 32nd, 24th, and 26th. So most of them actually went significantly later than Wilson and London are likely to.
     
  5. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    The fact is, unlike Deebo, most didn't deliver the goods last year. Yeah, there were circumstances, but the reality is these guys didn't have great seasons, circumstances are statically irrelevant, as the same may be true for the rookie we get. Deebo did deliver. Also they took several years to develop. Heck, even Deebo took two years.

    The point is that it is important for Zach to have a great weapon now to take that leap, and Deebo gives him that weapon, while a draft pick likely will take time, and even in two years may not end up as good as Deebo. You want to get rid of Jets tax, win games and have a great QB next year? Deebo will greatly help make this happen. Then in 2023, as you suggested, we will be in better position to make a play-off run.
     
    #145 Borat, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  6. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I guess the way I view it is this -

    Let's just say the WR we take at 10 has a first few years similar to the average first few years for WRs taken at 10 - 600+ yards his first year, 800+ his 2nd, and 1,000+ his third year. Wouldn't we be better equipped for a playoff run compared to having Deebo in all years but the WR taken at 10's first year? I think so given that the drafted WR would be making $5 million and Deebo would be making $20-25 million. $15-$20 million extra cape space is a hell of a lot of money. It's enough to sign an all-pro at almost every single position. I think there's very little question the overall team would be better in that scenario than paying Deebo alone so much money.

    Injuries/suspensions don't matter here because they're relatively random and Deebo is super injury prone anyway so I don't think we want to go down that road. I was just using them to explain why some of the guys I listed didn't specifically produce last year, despite them having produced in other years.

    Regarding Zach's development, if he shows any notable improvement at all then he's probably getting a third season, and I don't think the difference between him getting that third season is Deebo or Wilson/London. Wilson's main problem last year wasn't his WRs, it was that he threw a ton of INTs early in the year and was insanely inaccurate throughout the entire year. We also have to keep in mind that Moore will likely improve and we can be hopeful that both he and Davis will stay healthier.
     
  7. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I agree on FA and I’m fine w drafting a WR, but we disagree on now being the time to spend.
     
  8. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I can see your point of view, but there are a few things to consider. CAP can be fairly easily manipulated, particularly when you do not have quarter billion dollar QB contracts to worry about. So, the fact you saved on CAP for 3 years before we (hopefully) pay that much to Zach does not at all mean the saved money would be used to get an all star. The point is that if there is an all star that is willing to come to the Jets for fair price JD is willing to pay, we will be able to sign him regardless of Deebo.

    What's more, as you could see from Marcus Williams ordeal, there was 25% Jets tax, because people don't want to come to losing teams. People also want to play with good QBs. Deebo will help us win games this year and will help Zach develop this year, so that next off-season maybe all star FAs will actually want to come to the Jets without the Jets tax. Not to mention better Zach means better chance to complete in 2023. There is now mounting evidence that superior WR weapons early in a talented QB's career directly impact QB development, such as Allen, Murray, Burrow. I want to see that happen to Zach if he indeed has that talent.

    This list of guys you gave to me is decent, but only a few guys are on par with Deebo and few performed great in first 2 years. Btw, Deebo is not injury prone, only was injured in second year with hammy, and played all but one game last year. Two out of 3 guys (Chase and Waddle) were consensus top 5 talent for years. I would say if Jameson Williams were healthy, he would be on par with that level of talent, but unfortunately he tore ACL. And chances are we still end up with him. Maybe that's what it will be in the draft - we get Jameson, with the hope that he has the best chance to break out in the second half of the first year in spite of missing games early, due to superior level of talent to Wilson/London. With Deebo things would be a lot easier, but I suspect we will have to go the harder route by drafting a WR that you have outlined.
     
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  9. Get me the Damn Ball

    Get me the Damn Ball Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we're getting him. Price is probably too steep for JD's liking
     
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  10. Donttasemebro

    Donttasemebro Well-Known Member

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    Like RB before them...WR's have become a fungible position for all the but the elite players.
     
  11. dawinner127

    dawinner127 Well-Known Member

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    It was absolutely a huge factor.

    Keelan Cole, Tarik Black, Jeff Smith, and Denzil Mims

    Those 4 looking like they can remake the greatest show on turf.. totally not the problem at all
     
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  12. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Those guys hardly played, dont revise history. Smith was a special teamer and Black only saw action in 1 game the entire season

    Wilson played with Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Jamison Crowder, why did you leave them off
     
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  13. BroadwayZach

    BroadwayZach Well-Known Member

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    He was ready to pay a whole lot of money to an inferior player while giving up picks so I don't think it's too crazy.
     
  14. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    We'll need some players that can stay healthy.

    Last year was brutal.
     
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  15. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    Build it the right way JD! He’s supposed to be a draft guru. We need to draft a WR not spend $25 mil a year and a bunch of our picks on any player.
     
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  16. Snatch Catch

    Snatch Catch Well-Known Member

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  17. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I recall one game where Jeff Smith got the most WR snaps and another where Keelan Cole got the most snaps. Cole also led the team in WR snaps for the year.

    For the most part Zach never had Elijah Moore or Michael Carter. Moore started the year after being injured all pre-season and was the third or 4th read. Zach was never getting to the third read as bad as the Ol was as the OL had not practiced together all off-season because of injuries and was learning a new system. But, even if the OL had blocked better it was unlikely ZW was going to be able to process fast enough to get to his 3rd or 4th WRs. We only saw ZW routinely processing fast enough to get to his 3rd and 4th reads at the end of the season. It was only after ZW got injured that ML made adjustments to feature Moore and most importantly to start running the Jet sweep which changed the entire offense b y threatening the edge, slowing DL, making things a ton easier on the OL and giving the QB an extra half second to throw.

    Corey Davis was injured half the year and when he was healthy he dropped a ton of balls and caused 2 INTs. Hard to say he was there either. Michael Carter was not ready when the year started and by the time he was Zach was injured and unfortunately when Zach came back Carter got injured two more times. Berrios was the only dependable skill player that Zach had for most of the year.

    So yes it is fair to say that Cole, Black, Smith and Mimms were Zach's receiving core last year. Although you forgot DJ Montgomery he was a big contributor at the end of the year as well.
     
    #157 Noam, Apr 22, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
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  18. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Were back to the idea that a great WR will help Zach develop. Receivers don't really help a QB develop, but they do help them thrive.

    Burrow got hurt in his 8th start, and everyone who watched him already knew he was a great QB. Murry was OROY his rookie year, and Allen scored 29 TDs year 2, before getting a true #1 in year 3. Deebo wont determine if Zach is going to be a FQB. But he will help him thrive if he is.
     
    #158 ouchy, Apr 22, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
  19. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Well-Known Member

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  20. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    I prefer to find a WR in the draft who won't make 20+ million a year until year 5 or 6. A QB can't do it alone, but a franchise QB needs to show he can make players around him better. If we do get Deebo, I won't complain, but it's not what I'd do.
     
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