Darnold, Fields, Wilson, Jones, Trask, Lance

Discussion in 'Draft' started by NOVAJET, Dec 28, 2020.

?

Fields, Wilson or Darnold

  1. Fields

    22.0%
  2. Wilson

    26.3%
  3. Darnold

    31.7%
  4. Other - Explain

    10.8%
  5. Watson: 3 1st's

    9.1%
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  1. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Slauson yes good call. I agree on Winters but I omitted him because we did technically develop him and play him for a while. Certainly could've used him this past year and I was pretty miffed that they released him.
     
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  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This articles is based on Serby's interview of Wilson's BYU coach so it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but still, he makes a very compelling case as to why Wilson should be the pick at #2:

    Coach makes case for Jets taking Zach Wilson in 2021 NFL Draft (nypost.com)

    "I asked the coach if his quarterback’s accuracy (33 touchdowns, three interceptions, 10 rushing TDs) was his best trait.

    “To ask me what his best trait is, that’s a difficult question to answer ’cause I think he’s got everything you need in a quarterback — he’s got the work ethic, the IQ, the study habits, the knowledge of the game, he has a presence, the demeanor and the arm strength, then he’s got the leg strength and ability to create space and use his athleticism,” Sitake said.

    Leadership?

    “He connects well with his teammates, connects well with the fans, connects well with his coaches,” Sitake said. “Great leader, guy that we can always count on … but he was doing that since he got here. When he came as a true freshman, he was already a born leader.”

    Toughness?

    “Yeah, he had 10 rushing touchdowns,” Sitake said, and laughed. “There were times I saw him play, and I thought he could play safety, he’s got enough speed and athleticism to do that. I think he’s the whole package."

    But really, if you want to know whether Wilson should be the pick you need to watch as much film on him as you can. It's all there to see.
     
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  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Trevor Lawrence was a five star recruit too. And a ton of other NFL prospects as well. That doesn't make them similar...
     
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  4. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    A bit shocking to read this to be honest. Rosen had a good arm like Fields and both did well for high profile HS programs, but that's where the similarities end. Rosen is essentially an unathletic statue operating from the pocket. Fields is extremely athletic dual threat QB, who can really move and gain some yards on the ground. He is also superior to Rosen BY A LOT in pretty much every category, be it adjusted completion %, deep ball passing, or passing from clean pocket. On top of that, Rosen was very injury prone (Wilson is iron man compared to him) and had a terrible attitude. In other words, Fields is head and shoulders above Rosen as a prospect, where it is not even remotely close. Rosen is poor man's Trask if I were to make any comparison. Which is not to say Rosen was not a first round talent, given the QB premium, but Trask may end up in the first round as well even in the draft as deep in QB as this one.
     
  5. baalworship

    baalworship Active Member

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    This sounds great several years later. My point was that ESPN, NFL.com rated Rosen ahead of Mahomes and Watson as a QB prospect.

    They failed to mention the negatives and called him "the best pure pocket passer" in the 2018 draft.

    On Trask:

    I could see the Steelers going there in round 2 or 3.

    Landry Jones

    Mason Rudolph

    Kyle Trask

    He fits their type for backup QB.
     
    #2345 baalworship, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  6. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    I've read Fields comparisons to Cam Newton.
     
  7. Frenbar

    Frenbar Well-Known Member

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    If we draft a QB I hope we go with Wilson, but I'm not entirely opposed to passing on a QB and building up talent at the rest of our positions either.
     
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  8. baalworship

    baalworship Active Member

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  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The rap on Fields not seeing the whole field, and needing everything to be clean, has been mentioned several times. IDK how true it is. I'd probably need to go back and watch a lot more tape - especially the games he struggled in - to see if this has merit, but it is troubling. He certainly has all the physical tools, but it's that mental part that so often prevents great prospects from fulfilling their promise. I don't think Douglas will roll the dice with Fields if he sees any basis for this knock on him.
     
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  10. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure why they would say he was the best pure passer, when Baker had significant edge in adjusted completion % (81 to 75) and clean pocket adjusted completion % (84 to 77). For comparison Fields is 81 and 85 in these categories. And this is on top of his superior athleticism, mobility, and rushing ability. To me it is pretty clear cut Fields is #1 in 2018 draft over Baker and Sam, with Rosen not in the conversation for the top selection.

    On Mason Rudolph, I know he was brought up a lot because he had somewhat decent stats. While Rosen is not anywhere near as athletic as Fields, he is basically Usman Bolt compared to Mason, who chose not to even participate in key combine athletic drills. Basically everyone knew he would do badly, but he chose to sit these out, because this was better than seeing how badly he would actually do on these athletic tests.
     
  11. baalworship

    baalworship Active Member

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    Fields is a weird prospect. There are times when he is staring right at a wide open WR and doesn't throw it. His field vision is also off.

    Sometimes you see him make a nice play against man defense and then he just freezes against zone.
     
  12. baalworship

    baalworship Active Member

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    Fields over Baker?

    No way.
     
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  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I think he needs to go some place where he can sit for a year or two. I think he'd be a bad fit on the Jets.
     
  14. baalworship

    baalworship Active Member

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    I think Mel Kiper is just being stubborn at this point because when they left high school it was SUPPOSED to be Lawrence/Fields 1/2.

    5 STAR Recruits.
     
  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Kiper and McShay is that they tend to only analyze to the upside of the prospect and not the downside. They throw out best case scenario a without the worst and only look at ceilings and not floors.

    The thing is that if you analyze Fields' two bad games in a vacuum the not seeing the field thing is completely warranted. Northwestern and Indiana threw coverages he wasn't expecting to see and combined that with immense front four pressure that he and Day simply weren't prepared to see and the adjustments versus Northwestern were non-existent while he rebounded pretty well against Indiana and still recovered well despite some shaky play early.

    But it forgets all of the games he did see the field well and I'm not just talking about the Clemson game. If you look at the gameplan and subsequent performance against Michigan in 2019 when he threw short all game lord and relied on short throw accuracy to give his guys a chance at YAC they shredded Michigan in two.

    Obviously not world beaters but he faced decent pressure against Nebraska and Northwestern last year and played well. Same thing against Penn State in 2019 who will end up having at least 3-4 front seven NFL players if not more.

    If he's not pro ready in year one and two, then neither is Wilson. Because Wilson is taking at least a 1.5x step up competition wise while Fields is really a 1x up given the good defensive conference he plays in. I also think he's going to have a good chance to adapt a bit quicker assuming the team he goes to implements some RPO in the offense because he has a ton of experience in it. It helped Baker a lot his rookie year and Marcus Mariota his first couple years as well (before he fell off a cliff).

    The hero ball definitely needs to be coached out of him. And I'd like to see whomever we take on the bench for a year regardless, including Fields unless he really really really takes command of the team like Russell Wilson did.
     
    #2355 Jonathan_Vilma, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  16. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I think the problem with McShay and Kiper is that they accept side money from talent agencies to give unrealistic scouting evaluations of subpar players.
     
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  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    I like Fields. His weaknesses can be improved at the next level. His strengths cannot be taught. He just needs to go to the right situation (as most QB's do).
     
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  18. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    They also have a tendency to pump a prospect if the rest of sports world starts to catch on to someone. Just so they can remind everyone that they heard about them first from McShay and Kiper and not Daniel Jeremiah for example.

    There is something a bit peculiar about the Wilson hype for the better half of the past month or so though. Not saying they definitely did what you're alluding to, but I can't remember a prospect coming out of relatively nowhere (even with the season he had) to be talked about as much as he is starting in January.

    There's always late risers but he seems like he's literally the only guy "draft experts" are really talking about right now.
     
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  19. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    One thing we need to be careful of is not to downgrade the prospect just because ESPN talking heads that don't really know too much hype him up. I recall when he just declared I was pretty happy, since that added a potential #2 option, and that was about 2 months ago. There is a difference between ignoring these "experts" and actually counting it is a negative just because they like him. Former makes sense and later doesn't. Similarly, if a guy had good stats, you may not want to fully rely on these as there are other various factors, but to count good stats against him also does not make any sense.

    For example, Zach led his team to top rated offense in College football this year, according to pff. Now, of course competition factors into this, and it's not really better than say Alabama, but it's also not a bad thing that they achieved these marks.
     
  20. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Of course. But speaking honestly and not facetiously - do you remember the coverage of the 2018 class? There was constant discussion of all four prospects and to a lesser extent (but still received coverage) Lamar Jackson. It's nearly wall to wall Zach Wilson coverage right now.
     
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