Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Petrozza, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    My co-worker *was* vaccinated. She's an EMS responder in both Newtown and Redding and had to get vaccinated in order to ride in the trucks.

    She still wound up with a very mild case of CV. It's very possible that the immune response from the RNA vaccine was part of a one-two punch to her pancreas, which is non-functional at this point.

    Aside from her EMS responsibilities in the towns my employer would have required her to get vaccinated by the end of June unless a medical issue prevented that. I'm not sure her family history of type I Diabetes would have exempted her, although it is possible.

    I'm guessing the management team is evaluating her condition and weighing the deadline they set in April for all employees to be vaccinated by the end of June.
     
    #8881 Br4d, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  2. Petrozza

    Petrozza Administrator

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    Rumors of U.S. Secretly Harboring Top China Official Swirl

    ... rumors that a vice minister of State Security, Dong Jingwei defected in mid-February, flying from Hong Kong to the United States with his daughter, Dong Yang.

    Dong Jingwei supposedly gave the U.S. information about the Wuhan Institute of Virology that changed the stance of the Biden administration concerning the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic.
     
  3. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Now let's see what this administration does about it.

    If the WHO is involved it goes nowhere... maybe some weak sanctions.

    Joey B. is on live tv proclaiming a white boy summer... :p
     
  4. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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  5. mute

    mute Well-Known Member

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    Study shows eating chocolate 10x a day can lead to improved memory.

    Study shows eating too much chocolate increases your chances of developing significant memory loss.
     
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  6. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Big Chocolate needs to regulated!
     
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  7. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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  8. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Following science...

    1407124450261225476 is not a valid tweet id
     
  9. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    As I've noted in this thread before, the study which you refer to so proudly proves absolutely nothing, and must be considered bs in the face of well controlled studies which prove the ineffectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19.

    In case you missed it, I'll repost the more accurate information:

    Hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatments increased COVID survival rate by almost three times
    https://www.kusi.com/medrxiv-study-...ed-covid-survival-rate-by-almost-three-times/

    Okay, science is often a never completely resolved process in which one prevailing theory is replaced by another theory that better fits the unfolding facts. So, although the best scientific studies have indicated that hydroxychloroquine does NOT decrease COVID 19 mortality or symptoms [A systematic review and meta-analysis on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as monotherapy or combined with azithromycin in COVID-19 treatment | Scientific Reports (nature.com)], we should be open to new evidence as it comes in.

    That being said, it's misleading to post a report of a study contradicting the preponderance of the scientific evidence (Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic | medRxiv) without posting the comments pointing out that the study is of questionable validity. Here are three of many commentaries:

    "A couple of things people really need to note here:

    1) This is PRE-publication. It hasn't been peer-reviewed. Everything on this website is such. It cannot be regarded the same as something which has gone through the full process with a respected journal.

    2) This is an observational study (retrospective cohort). It is NOT a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial. Only the RCT can prove causation. This is hypothesis-generating research only. It does not PROVE HCQ works, merely suggests that.

    3) If you dig in a bit, they define "treatment" to include only 37 of the advertised 250ish patients in the cohort, specifically those receiving >3,000mg HCQ and >1g azithromycin. Small sample sizes should always be viewed with extreme skepticism. Less than 30ish and your p-value is essentially meaningless.

    4) The overall mortality rate of the total group was ~80%! These people were old, unhealthy to begin with, admitted to the hospital after nearly a week of progressing symptoms, required ICU care, intubation, and mechanical ventilation. These were very sick patients.

    5) Clinically, we see a pattern for the treatment of ARDS and secondary pneumonia, not COVID. High dose corticosteroids work (we know this for ARDS), tocilizumab, a potent anti-inflammatory works (we have some data for this in ARDS as well). And azithromycin is a very common drug to treat bacterial pneumonias that often pop up secondary to lung disease like this.

    So, please avoid jumping to unsupported conclusions. If we want real answers, we have to keep our skepticism, and be very careful in our analysis. The key here is we need corroborating studies. An April 2020 study at the VA showed exactly the opposite effect of HCQ in a similar patient population (though the VA obviously serves more males)."

    "I see no indication of how many patients received the high doses of hydroxychloroquine and zinc, so it is impossible to tell how meaningful the results are. If 78.2% of the 255 patients died, that leaves only 55 or 56 who survived. Is the increased survival rate a function of the small number phenomenon, the drug regimen, both, neither?"

    "Where to begin? 1) This is an abstract; not yet peer reviewed; so it's just four guys saying this. 2)They don't say how they got their population. 3) They provide no data. 4) There is no control group either randomized, case control, or cohort. 5) They really do not specify their methods. 6) There is no treatment protocol so we don't know what additional treatment they may have received. Overall this doesn't meet any scientific standard. But even if it had been well done; these patients presented in the Spring of 2020 when treatment protocols were very different and outcomes much worse. This study says nothing about whether HCQ would be of any benefit to patients receiving treatment in Spring 2021."

    #287joelip, Jun 14, 2021
     
  10. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    In regard to your biased article from an anti-vaxer publication, please consider my discussion of the "suppression of debate" complaint in regards to hydroxychloroquine. The scientific theories that are in the mainstream are there for a reason: because peer review by experts in experimental design, etc. have concluded that the studies supporting the theories are the most accurate fit. Complaining that the theories lacking such support are the "true" theories is at best misleading and at worst dangerous to the health of those who take you at your word.

    Here is my previous discussion regarding what you might consider "suppression of debate" in science:

    Suppression of discussion is certainly an important topic. I haven't followed the hydroxychloroquine debate really closely. However, I have followed it closely enough to know that the best scientific evidence indicates that it does not decrease COVID 19 mortality or symptoms. For me, this becomes a question of how much evidence there is for hydroxychloroquine effectiveness vs. ineffectiveness. If the scientific evidence is fairly close for effectiveness vs. ineffectiveness, then there should be ongoing testing and discussion of the issue. However, if the scientific evidence is overwhelming for one side or the other, then keeping the debate going artificially has potentially lethal consequences for people who choose to believe the position that has little evidence.

    My impression is that this is what happened in the hydroxychloroquine debate. That is, the best studies with the best designs (here is another one: Hydroxychloroquine does not benefit adults hospitalized with COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)) found that there is no clinical benefit of hydroxychloroquine in COVID 19 treatment. Thus, it was thought that people should be made aware that the scientific consensus was that it was likely a false hope that hydroxychloroquine was effective against COVID 19. Reliance upon hydroxychloroquine for COVID 19 treatment was thus viewed by the scientific community as dangerous, and at best a waste of time and money. Because the best designed studies (randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials) came up with these results, some authorities felt that the public should be warned. An additional factor was that the unsubstantiated statements of hydroxychloroquine for COVID 19 was resulting in shortages of the drug for the people who would actually benefit from it (This Is How the Hydroxychloroquine Shortage Is Hurting People with RA (healthline.com))

    You can call this cutting off debate. However, from a scientific point of view, the studies with the best designs (i.e., randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials) found no benefit, and in the absence of similarly well designed studies showing hydroxychloroquine COVID effectiveness, there really was no point in trying to debate the drug's relative effectiveness or ineffectiveness. Of course, some people in any case ignored the science and went ahead and used hydroxychloroquine, and that was their right. This is not to say, though, that the scientists were wrong for trying to alert the public to the scientific evidence.

    Regarding following the money, I find it hard to believe that the great majority of medical researchers and health care professionals were all corrupt and on the take to deprive people of hydroxychloroquine. Actually, I would first look for corruption on the part of hydroxychloroquine manufacturers and stockholders.

    #292joelip, Jun 14, 2021
     
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  11. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Kids... DO NOT take medical advice from politicians... ;)

     
  12. JackBower

    JackBower Well-Known Member

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    You'll learn the person you are responding to wont reply or look at any other articles outside of their insanely biased sources (rushlimbaugh.com, legal insurrection to name a few)...

    but you will see them chime in about biased media and people manipulated by MSM. It's quite an about face. Or just more tweets.
     
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  13. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    this place could use tweets, we dont have enough of them posted
     
  14. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Nothing beat Rochester's christian soldier website.
     
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  15. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I'm working as fast as I can, damnit! :mad:
     
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  16. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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  17. SOXXX2

    SOXXX2 Well-Known Member

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    The man who once wielded so much power is now desperate to remain relevant.
     
  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Right now Fauci is the most respected man in Washington - professional, knowledgeable, low-key, no nonsense and not afraid to ruffle anyone's feathers. Every politician in that swamp should learn a lesson from him - there's value in telling the truth.

    To even criticize Fauci in public will end political careers.
     
  19. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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