Coherent Week 2 Thoughts

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by WoodyHarrelson, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    Tough start for the jets and ZW. It's not that the Jets lose, it's the way they lose that always hurts or is embarrassing. We know this Jets team is not a good team. 4 interceptions and a visibly frustrated Wilson was tough to see. Phil Simms said it on CBS "that Jets fans need to calm down, this is not a good football team and hopefully there aren't many more days like this." But, the throws Wilson made were inexcusable. He had time to throw too. I knew a game like this would happen, and figured it would be this one, and it's good to know Herbet and Josh Allen had multiple INT's vs this D as rookies with better talent.

    The good news, and as predicted, it seems the Panthers are a playoff team with a top D. That's why this week was a bit disappointing. Also, Simms said "this is probably the best secondary they will face all year." While I believe that, this is the NFL...we are going up against two pretty good corners this week and don't buy that excuse. Also, on a positive, it's not like any other rookie QB is tearing it up. Mac Jones is on a far superior team and OL but I didn't think he was some sort of superstar we faced, nice player though. Trevor looks lost and Fields looked awful.

    All I will say about the NE game is it's fine. This is a very coachable moment for ZW, it was bound to happen. The question is hw does he respond? If he starts throwing balls in the air like it's a Madden game after this performance, and the coaches can't get to him, I will have my concerns. But for now, it's ok.

    At the end of the day, it comes down to this. It's been a recurring theme in my posts. You have to draft players who either play or are strong professionals. Just look at our classes from 2019/2020. It's awful. What really irritates me still is this 2020 class. You can't draft a guy like Mims, not play him, and expect this team to be anywhere competitive. A player in that round should immediately be able to help a young QB, very disappointing and a lot of fingers to be pointed at Douglas there. Even the 3rd round picks, you should be able to find a starter there but for whatever reason can't put it together.

    2019
    First Round, Pick #3: Quinnen Williams
    Third Round, Pick #68: Jachai Polite
    Third Round, Pick #93: Chuma Edoga,
    Fourth Round, Pick #121: Trevon Wesco
    Fifth Round, Pick #157: Blake Cashman
    Sixth Round, Pick #196: Blessuan Austin

    2020:
    Becton (Rd 1) and Hall (Rd 5). WR Denzel Mims (Rd 2), S Ashtyn Davis (Rd 3), DL Jabari Zuniga (Rd 3), RB La'Mical Perine (Rd 4), QB James Morgan (Rd 4), OL Cameron Clark (Rd 4) and P Braden Mann (Rd 6)
     
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  2. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    This was a very disappointing game. Adequate QB play could have won this game, or at least kept it competitive. This was not your typical juggernaut Patriots team that steamrolls the Jets.

    OL and DL both played well. I didn't think the secondary looked too bad. The running game looked strong. It seemed like check downs and underneath routes were relatively open all game.

    Zach played horribly. There isnt much else to it. He routinely attempted high risk throws when there were low risk completions available. He looked Darnold-esque with some of those back foot throws. Those just arent going to consistently win you games in the NFL. I'm not writing him off, but he needs to get his shit together.

    I'm not a savant or anything, so maybe the Pats were disguising coverages in a way that just befuddled a rookie, but I didnt see anything crazy. Just a bunch of bad decisions.
     
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  3. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see this post…I refrained from posting yesterday because it would have been a pissed off rant.

    so some of my random thoughts the morning after

    Zach was horrific…like Sanchez bad…4 picks, and they were bad picks…throwing it up scared into the middle of the field was bad. The second one I believe is the one that went through the receivers hands, but the last two were bad. Zach was downright terrible. No two ways about it.

    OL played much better than last week….not great by any means, and Fant had some penalties in there, but the running game showed up, and while there was still too many pressures, it wasn’t as bad as last week. I don’t know how much of it is a sign of the OL coming together vs. maybe the Pats DL is not as good as the Panthers…probably a little bit of both. But I’m hoping the OL will keep improving as they work together more and get more comfortable with both the scheme and each other.

    RBs looked good overall…we were getting some nice 6-9 yard runs it seems like…I think we’ll be ok at RB and I liked what I saw from both Johnson and Carter

    WRs had a tough day…a few balls bounced off their hands … Davis was shut down, but that’s what Belichick does, and that was a very good secondary, even without Gilmore. Nice to see Moore come back from a disappointing first game, but still he doesn’t yet look half as good as he did in training camp. The elephant in the room is clearly Mims. I think our frustration is the lack of clarity as to why he’s not playing. He wasn’t Randy Moss last year, but he showed enough promise that to see him not playing is maddening. There is something going on that we don’t know. Very frustrating, but I have a hard time believing this guy can’t help our team.

    TEs were bad…Griffin again did more bad than good, Kroft was nowhere to be seen…we need a starting caliber TE badly

    I think LeFleur is struggling as a first time play caller. It was bad last week and not much better this week. He has to give Zach some easy quick completions to get him going. Some outs, some screens, etc. he needs to get better…needs a better feel for what the team can do well at this stage.

    on D, they played well enough to win…the pressure wasn’t terrible…JFM is balling, and I can only imagine how much better he’d be with Carl Lawson on the other side. Shaq Lawson showed up too. Still waiting on Q to pick up where he left off last year. Our secondary held up well,I thought…Maye is BALLING…and so frustrating that here is another player who we drafted, has played well and deserves a second deal, and we screwed him. JD or no, that is SO same old Jets. At some point, you need to sign some guys.

    but overall the D seems faster, the tackling was really good early…first man to the ball typically made the tackle…they faded down the stretch as the offense kept shitting the bed…that TD run where he broke 8 tackles was disgusting, but I understand the mentality after Zach kept giving the game away.

    all in all, I saw some promise in better OL and RB play, better D, but Zach regressed big time. All of this makes sense with a young team with new coaches learning new systems, and was to be expected. I hope to continue to see improvement and I’ll bet we’re a much better team in week 14 than we are today, though I don’t see more than like 4 or 5 wins this year. That’ll help our draft position, but I’m really getting too old to keep punting on seasons….

    next up at Denver I think will be an ugly loss. We NEVER beat them….some teams just always seem to have our number (Denver, Philly, Balt, Pitt)…and it’s away and they have a better pass rush than NE. I’m preparing for an ugly ass loss again.
     
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  4. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    I chalk Zach's game up to a learning experience. IMO he gets one, maybe two of those this season. No point judging him completely on this game. My concern with him is there was a complete flip in personality. He is usually making good decisions. Sunday he made bad decisions. He is usually very accurate. Sunday he was missing easy throws. Where he was fundamentally strong, suddenly he looked sloppy. This really makes it hard to evaluate him. Don't think the pain he felt last Monday didn't effect him this week. There was a hint of not trusting his line that came to define Darnold's whole Jet career.

    I put a lot of blame on the gameplan. There should have been no doubt that this was a dink and dunk week. We should have had the first 10 passes scripted and set, leaving no doubt they were conservative. NE basically executed the game plan we should have been running.

    IMO the defense improved a little, not a lot. They weren't facing a talented offense, but they did okay at not breaking, until they broke. That 30 yard TD run where we had 7 missed tackles pretty much ended any chance we had. Pretty much everyone in our back 7 not named Mosley or Maye has some tackling issues.

    Pass protection improved a little, not a lot. The protection was overall better but too many penalties. I guess a penalty is better than getting your QB creamed, but they were still drive killers. Much better job run blocking though.

    Our kicker might be a better punter than kicker?

    On to Denver and lets see if we cant continue to clean up our weak spots.
     
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  5. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with everything. The Jets hardly ever win out in Denver - tremendous home field advantage for the Broncos no matter who they play. I don’t expect a win either - been saying that since the schedule came out.

    I think the London game will be the first win. I think the Jets will be playing a lot better towards the end of the year. 5 wins or so sounds right.
     
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  6. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    I get Zach needs learning experience and needs to learn the speed of the game. I just like to know why Kyle Murray and Herbert learned the game quickly in their rookie season. Ok I get better OL and possibly WR corps but hopefully Zach is going to pick up things and adjust quickly.
     
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  7. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    If Wilson continues his shitslide into this Sunday's game we will be lucky to win anything this year

    OTOH As posted before , at the very worst Wilson should get his act together in October versus the Falcons and win that game

    If the learning curve is NOT pointed up by then its a bleak outlook my friends
     
  8. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    thise two QBs were drafted into MUCH better offenses…Herbert had Allen, and Murray had Hopkins. We don’t have anyone close to those guys. It makes a difference.

    but yes, I expected better….right now, I’m seriously worried that Wilson is going to turn into Darnold 2.0 if we don’t protect him better. Yesterday I felt like he was rushing his play because he wasn’t trusting the OL. Lots of bad forced throws
     
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  9. Linebacker712

    Linebacker712 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Also, Payton Manning was drafted onto a very talented Colts team with Marvin Harrison as his #1 receiver, Marshall Faulk at RB, a bunch of other great weapons, and a great line, and even he had a lot of question marks about his ceiling throughout his first year. But the rest is history.

    Let's also not forget that Mark Sanchez had a much better offense around him with a great O-line, and his first three games were excellent and strongly suggested that he was the QB we had been waiting for. Hell, Ryan Leaf looked excellent in his first few games.

    So, you never can tell.
     
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  10. BrickcityJet

    BrickcityJet Well-Known Member

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    It was a disappointing game for sure. Mainly because of Wilson. He made some horrendous choices and we paid for it. There really is no excuse.

    Hopefully, he grows from this and never has a showing like that ever again. The D looked pretty good and the Oline held for the most part, towards the end…they got shaky. Ty Johnson and Carter looked great. We definitely have talent to win. That’s what makes it more disappointing.

    I’m not looking at next years draft already. We played Belechik and a tough secondary. I’m not excusing Wilson’s play.

    I don’t see us winning next week either. It’s going to be about week 4-5 until we get it together enough to sniff a win.
     
  11. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

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    Yeah when you put a rookie out there like that either they crash or burn. Either Zach is going to be special or a bust no in-between. If he sat and learned at whatever pace he needed you give him a better chance
     
  12. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

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    Yeah those drafts are the problem. Saleh said they were here to lift Wilson up not the other way around but that's impossible with this offense roster. I do think Crowder will be huge for Wilson and Moore
     
  13. Jetaho

    Jetaho Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday was brutal and I should've played golf in the freezing rain. I still trust the process and the coaching staff to make Zach a NFL QB. What other option is there?
     
  14. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Sam was a good QB. He has on a team with plenty of weapons and looks great. Meanwhile, we draft Denzel Mims and Lemichael Perine. Let Robby walk.

    Major eyes on JD this off-season.
     
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  15. Jetaho

    Jetaho Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Bridgewater. And Geno - Seattle trotted him out for OT coin toss, which he promptly lost.
     
  16. b.reyes16

    b.reyes16 Well-Known Member

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    The CS/Joe have made some really odd decisions so far...between cutting Bless Austin, making Mims inactive, letting GVR stick as a starter...it's a bit concerning.

    Not losing faith yet, but really need to start seeing some results soon.
     
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  17. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    12:32 look at that throw. That is what gets you excited about Zach and what gets him in trouble.
     
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  18. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think protection was the issue yesterday. He showed great ability to avoid the rush (one plus we can take from yesterday) but he made poor throws whether in the pocket or on the run. Nevertheless, his ability to throw on the run, or off-platform as the football gurus call it, is one of the main reasons why we drafted him, and he had a poor showing.
     
  19. RedRoute1

    RedRoute1 Guest

    I don't get the games being in an out of town market so can only go by what I see in highlights and read about online...but have two main thoughts after reading some of the discussion here over the last 24hrs:

    1) If we didn't think there would be games like this in Wilson's first year, then we're not being realistic...and I bet if we were being honest with ourselves, looking over the schedule prior to the start of the year, we'd have guessed Wilson's toughest games would be against a Bill Belichek coached team and possibly the Bills due to their great D...So it's a bummer that the home opener had to be agains the Pats as it's a complete buzzkill seeing that unfold at home in game 2, but it's a rookie QB...I've said all along, if we get to 4-5 wins it will be a good season, nor surprised at all about what happened on Sunday...disappointed but not surprised

    2) My biggest takeaway was the OL and it's both relieving and concerning....OL played better by all accounts, despite 4 sacks...Was that due to better coaching, better scheme/game planning (moving Wilson around more)? Not sure, but it's a bit of relief after the game one disaster...or, and here's the concerning part, was it due in whole or in part to having Moses/Fant at OT and no Becton? I'll be honest, I'm not panicked but I'm very concerned about Becton for a multitude of reasons...it will be a complete killer if he doesn't pan out to be the rock solid LT cornerstone for this team for the next 7-8 years and right now I have very serious doubts he will be.
     
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  20. AndyDrums

    AndyDrums Well-Known Member

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    Nice to wake up Monday morning the same way I have on virtually every fall Monday morning over the past 7 or so years. I guess some things never change and really do remain the same LOL. Gotta wonder what, or if this new CS is thinking. Everyone is shitting on / giving up on Wilson, the real thing people need to question is how this young inexperienced QB was allowed to just go out and fling the football wherever he feels like, as though he were a 15 year veteran, against the best coach in NFL history. Could be indicative of some, disconnect, or dare I say dysfunction? I have no idea, but the way Zack played yesterday gave me the impression that they had no idea what they were doing at all on offense. That NE team was so very beatable yesterday it made me want to kill someone watching that (offensive) sewage. Remember Sam's first game? His first NFL pass was a pick 6. After that, they rolled the Lions putting up 5 or 6 offensive TD's and had no more turnovers. I kept thinking yesterday watching NE pick off pass after pass, how about dialing down the passing game to take what the d is giving (a la Mac Jones)? Jones did not do anything spectacular but showed a lot of restraint and maturity for a rookie. Zack? None at all. Where are the coaches? Dial him down! Another thing. The play calling was Adam Gase type abysmal. No imagination, nothing. Just fire the ball downfield and pray. Ridiculous. How's about using Zack's mobility a little like the Giants did Thursday with D. Jones? Does Zack know he can check down to a RB? EJ Moore is supposed to be some speedy WR? Throw a slant or 2 maybe to gain some yardage? Bubble screens do exist. Does LaFLeur even know what RPO means? I am really underwhelmed by what I have seen so far from this oc. They are misusing EJ Moore as an outside receiver when he clearly was born for the slot. That explains the lack of quick slant passes to EJ over the middle to utilize his speed I guess. And the biggest issue I have ties into Moore, and that is the Mims situation. Did Robert Saleh win 4 Super Bowls that none of us know about? He is a rookie HC and has created a really weird and bad situation. If I am Saleh, I play Mims outside and EJM in the slot, or, you can use Mims' size as a hybrid TE like Enunwa was before he got hurt. You want to use Crowder when he comes back, fine, but Smith and Berrios are jag's and really don't belong on any NFL roster as starting WR's. That whole situation is absurd. You have a big fast and from what I've seen, talented WR. You are a rookie HC. You forget personal bias and USE THIS GUY TO MAKE PLAYS. Give your rookie QB more weapons. Don't sit him out in favor of jag players to prove some mystical point or on general principle, that is ridiculous and not a good look for a rookie HC imho. Watching all of the amazing games yesterday, I realized that we are so far away from being competitive it is scary. It is as though 31 NFL teams play regular season football and the NY Jets play pre season football all season long.

    Feeling that feeling of hopeless desperation yet again, knowing every football Sunday that the team I love has no chance to win, with little if any chance to even compete. Jets remind me of living in a desert, trying to get out but going in circles.
     
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