Cimini - Sunday notes: The need for speed

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NotSatoshiNakamoto, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/37350/sunday-notes-another-no-1-on-hot-seat
     
  2. NYJets17

    NYJets17 Well-Known Member

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    I hope it's Brandin Cooks, who would pick him before us?

    edit: or OBJ don't matter to me.
     
  3. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    It's really hard to tell at this point how the draft is going to shake out but if one of the top 3 OT's happen to drop I would hope they jump on it. I know it is not a flashy pick but I think would be a nice addition especially if the pick up Johnson next week. They could go WR or TE in the second and the O would be looking pretty good at that point.
     
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  4. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    D'brick getting older and Breno nothing more than a short term stop gap. I have no confidence in Aboushi at this point.
    If one of the 3 OT's drops, we have to seriously consider adding that talent. BPA is really the right approach, especially on a team like ours needing help virtually everywhere but DL.
    I'd love to draft one of those OT's should they be available. Even if not available, i hope to see an OT or OG drafted somewhere in the first 3 rounds.
     
  5. NYJets17

    NYJets17 Well-Known Member

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    Especially if we get CJ2K. He's gonna need a capable line to run behind.
     
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  6. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    Kiper gets it. "In terms of explosion" he knows the one thing on offense the Jets are lacking more than anything else is explosive playmakers. We just need to hope that no team snags Cooks or Beckham before 18.
     
  7. hornblower

    hornblower Well-Known Member

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    Any thoughts on moving down? Houston and Cleveland would pay big for #18. Good receivers and other quality players available in this very deep draft in later rounds.
     
  8. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Brick as getting older, tackles commonly play deep into their thirties. I've also seen people say that Mangold is getting old. Both of these guys were playing with a rookie between them and rookie playing QB and that means that Mangold had to make the post huddle calls (just like he did in 2009 and 2010 and the pass protection did suffer for it) and he still had to put his head down and let the defense make adjustments after that, so both of their play suffered because of that.

    I don't know if Geno will start but if he doesn't it means that Vick will make the post huddle blocking calls and they can both concentrate on doing their job. I have seen nobody bringing this stuff up and it's disappointing. Nobody should be looking to replace Brick or Mangold after a year where the rest of the Oline was in transition and a rookie who couldn't call oline blocking was thrown into the fire.
     
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  9. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    I completely agree but having another solid tackle on the roster would be a very good thing.
     
  10. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm not opposed to OT being selected, just not for the reasons given previously
     
  11. RuJFan

    RuJFan Well-Known Member

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    Not if Ebron slips to 18.
     
  12. RuJFan

    RuJFan Well-Known Member

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    Side note...
    So it seems Cimini is capable of not being a complete asshole and write a decent opinion piece, albeit based on someone else's evaluation.
     
  13. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    Brandin Cooks is a good player, he's a complete route runner, a good hands catcher, and obviously very fast, so I am not knocking him at all. The thing is that Odell Beckham Jr can do pretty much everything Cooks can do and he is a bigger body. His 40 time was 4.43 where Cooks' was a 4.33, so there is some difference there, but he is 5'11" and about 200 lbs as opposed to Cooks at 5'10" 190 lbs. 1 inch and 10 lbs may not seem like much, but Beckham has a much better release vs press coverage, and can play jump balls better. Beckham takes hits very well, where Cooks often drops balls when smashed. This is due in part to the size and strength of Beckham's hands; his hands are bigger than Sammy Watkins, who has 2 inches and 10 lbs on him, and Mike Evans, who has 6 inches and 30 lbs on him. If there really is only 1 inch and 10 lbs difference between the two, it looks like a lot more when you compare their physical leverage against defenders. Beckham also had a 38.5 inch vert jump, where Cooks had 36 inches. That means Beckham's eye level for a jump ball is 3.5 inches higher, not to mention his extra 2 inches of arm length and oversized hands. Beckham also scored better on the 3 cone drill, at 6.69 vs Cooks at 6.76, meaning that despite his larger size, Beckham has a quicker change of direction. Straight line speed is important but when getting off press coverage to run a deep out route, many people would be surprise to know that Beckham is going probably going to be the one to get there faster.
     
  14. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    I usually agree with you but here I have to take an exception. Man I hate these combine measurements. They are track skills not football skills. Do the eye test on these two players. I really like Beckham but he is a totally different player and can do different things than Cooks, and Cooks can excel in different areas than ODB.

    Beckham has excellent possession skills and a gear that makes him dangerous, but he has average elusiveness and many times he has to fight for yardage because his arm movement isn't that quick, he can't do that better than Cooks. Cooks can't fight for yardage as well, but his upper body quickness allows him to elude pass grabs by defenders and he has a shake that gives him an extra moment to take a step and lower his body.

    ODB has an excellent jump ball ability but his hands when making the catch aren't nearly as quick as Cooks, Cooks snatches the ball and brings it to his body faster so there is smaller chance of a contest, and as a result has time to move out of the defender's area to gain more yardage.

    They are different receivers and IMO will probably okay different positions, but the thing that makes them similar is that they are both tough, in attitude, and will both end up being good starters in the NFL.

    And for the Marquise Lee fans out there, that's not going to be the case for your boy. He's not tough at all, while he's fast and has good skills, he will only win a fight every once in a while.
     
  15. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    I do use the eye test, I watched game tape from at least 5-6 games for both receivers, in the same evening. I disagree that Beckham has average elusiveness, I think that two reasons it may seem that way is because Beckham is bigger and therefore the space between he and defenders look smaller, and the defenders in the SEC are generally faster and better than defenders in the PAC 12. Cooks was a very high percentage of Oregon State's offense, pretty much all of it really, and I believe that if Odell were given as many opportunities as Cooks was and used in as many different ways, he would be the undisputed better choice.

    Elusiveness and change of direction mean two different things, and I don't disagree that Cooks' elusiveness is a little better. When you are moving at a higher speed in a straight line, defensive players have to strike at a higher precision in order to make the tackle, which is why Cooks can make tacklers look silly . He changes his running angle slightly, while giving a little upper body wiggle as you called it, tricking defenders into thinking that is the precise striking moment. Beckham Jr is a hair slower, making defenders need a hair less precision to tackle him, but I think his strength to push through tackles makes up for that, although that is just my opinion. Change of direction refers more to the ability to stop moving in one direction and accelerate in a different direction (at a much more severe angle than what I was talking about with Cooks' elusiveness). This is a key attribute for certain routes such as deep ins, deep outs, and comeback routes.

    I agree that Cooks is a bit more elusive, at least in terms of before a defender can touch him, but I maintain that Beckham Jr has better change of direction, and that he does have above average elusiveness.
     
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  16. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I prefer OBJ over Cooks. But wherever the Jets draft if there's a clear cut BPA you have to take it regardless of position.
     
  17. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    LOL I am obsessive about this stuff and as soon as I submitted my post I went and found the video I could from both players. Watched it pretty well. I was going to come back and change my post from average to above average or even excellent for ODB's elusive ability but you had already responded. You are right that he is not average.

    I maintain that they have different skills and that while Beckham is bigger and stronger, and for both it is a good measure for his size, he does not do a lot of things better than Cooks for his size.

    ODB actually reminds me some of Dez Bryant. Not sure if he has that level of skill but he most undoubtedly has a better head.

    I'm getting way ahead of myself here but Cooks reminds me a lot of Steve Smith in ability and on field attitude. He plays bigger than his body and when the ball is secured he knows the short path of the gain and defenders react to him instead of the opposite, so all of these Santana Moss comparisons to me are kind of dumb.
     
  18. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you are correct in your comparison of Cooks to Steve Smith, although I think Smith has more muscle weight on him. Cooks looked bigger at the combine than in his game tape to me, and although it is not unusual for players to add some weight for the combine, they aren't always able to keep it up during the season. That is speculation of course, but something I will keep my eye on if the Jets draft him.
     
  19. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    http://espn.go.com/media/ncf/2001/0115/photo/s_smith_i.jpg

    That's Steve Smith when he played at Utah.
     
  20. MoWilkNYJ

    MoWilkNYJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't really watch enough college football to say which is better but OBJ has some hands

    [​IMG]
     

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