Carl Lawson Update

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NOVAJET, Apr 5, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    26,582
    Likes Received:
    13,123
    Seeing a little too much negativity in this thread in regards to Lawson. He can't help he got injured. He was looking amazing before that happened. Hopefully he can bounce back in 2022. I get fans being disappointed after paying CJ Mosley all that money for nothing and then it happens instantly again with Lawson, but the potential is definitely there. The defense will look completely different if both can stay on the field all season.

    If he does return to form and wreak havoc like many of us expected, he will instantly become a fan favorite. Just needs his body to hold up.
     
  2. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,729
    Likes Received:
    7,697
    Can you ever stop acting like you are some kind of football guru? Lawson had 8.5 sacks his first season, since then, in 3 seasons, he has a total of 11.5 sacks, he has averaged 20 tackles per season. Sorry but that is not the kind of production I want from an edge. Add to that he can't seem to stay on the field.

    Yes, they'll get some production out of him, he gets some pressure on the QB and makes some TFL but at $15M a season his production does not match his contract.
     
    Ralebird, Red Menace, Cman65 and 2 others like this.
  3. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,275
    Likes Received:
    8,085
    Knee reconstruction surgeries for ACL, MCL, etc. are done with cadavers.

    There's a new surgery technique they're using for ACLs that puts an internal brace on the new ligament to reinforce it. Speeds up recovery as well.
     
    barfolomew, IDFjet and K'OB like this.
  4. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    I'm a big fan of weightlifting (strength and power) but feel they need compound movements -- even Oly. Functional training on top of that

    it's maddening. As far as i know paying for world class training, trainers, dieticians does not count against the cap. Same with having world class turf that doesn't repeatedly injure your investment. a lot of penny-wise, pound-foolish nonsense needs to be rectified
     
  5. IDFjet

    IDFjet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    1,580
    There you go--thanks for the education.
     
  6. Brook!

    Brook! 2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    12,216
    Likes Received:
    13,446
    You have a valid point. My hope is based on his high motor performance in last years training camp. He made Becton his bitch. If he stays healthy I think he will do great things. But I agree with you on Jets needing another Pass Rusher in the draft.

    Come on NC. Enough with the "You have no clue" statements to everybody who says something you disagree. It is truly appalling.
     
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    33,038
    Likes Received:
    26,419
    Tell you what, I'll just quit the board. IMO his statement about Lawson was totally outrageous, appalling, and not factual.
     
    Noam likes this.
  8. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    5,317
    Likes Received:
    5,755
    Just use the ignore feature. With a name like Bills over Jets, you won't be missing much.
     
    cval, ColoradoContrails and LAJet like this.
  9. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    Stop using sacks as the only important stat. Do you only use tackles when measuring a LB? This isn’t 1990.
     
    Noam and NYJFOREVER like this.
  10. Bills Over Jets

    Bills Over Jets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    470
    That's pretty extreme. Others have presented you with the facts, which is that he hasn't had more than 5 sacks in a season in over 5 years, he's only done it once in his career, he's often injured and unavailable, and even when healthy he was not a difference maker. He's also coming off a torn achilles. I'm not saying the guy sucks, because he doesnt, but to act like he's the answer or some legitimate pass rusher that can be relied upon for consistent pressure would go against all the evidence. If anything is outrageous or not factual, its you saying otherwise and swimming upstream. If he ends up with 10 sacks this season, its not because that was a predictable or foreseeable outcome. It would be an outlier season for him.
     
  11. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    11,876
    Likes Received:
    10,775
    I don't agree with his comment but two Jets fans said something worse than the bills fan tbh.

    Getting scolded by Brook is hardly a reason to jack the board, if it was the place would be nearly empty by now.
     
    Cman65 likes this.
  12. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    6,779
    I'll take the middle ground in this debate -

    You have good and completely valid points. Lawson has never been a huge sack guy and he's coming off the worst injury possible for someone who relies on explosion and power.

    On the flip side, there is a school of thought that pressures are a more consistent indicator of total effectiveness of a pass rusher than sacks, because sacks are more prone to random outcomes than pressures are. I don't necessarily agree with that, but some do.

    Personally, a sack is a sack and it's so much more consequential than a pressure that I don't think pressures should be valued more.

    Having said that - I don't think either stance is "appalling" or "outrageous" so can't we all get along?
     
    PJ4Ever and Noam like this.
  13. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    32,905
    Likes Received:
    24,275
    We have enough guys with potential but for whatever reason, got hurt and didn't play. Lawson needs to overcome the injury plagued label and if nothing else, just play 16 games. He's kinda in the same bucket as Becton. The best measure of a player's worth is evidence and availability. Getting hurt again would not be good even if it's another fluke thing. If there are two guys on this roster that need to show up and play this year, its Lawson and Becton. I hope JD does draft an Edge early. Maybe that lights a fire under Lawson. I hope both of these players understand what's at stake here..
     
  14. Bills Over Jets

    Bills Over Jets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    470
    Lol I agree. The "pressure" numbers are weird, and I am a non-believer in those. For the last 5 or so years, if you're a Bills fan, you watch the Bills games and rarely ever see Jerry Hughes. He has low sack numbers (like 5 a year). It looks like he's not doing much. However, every year, he finishes in the top of the league in "pressures." At first, Bills fans would say he's still a productive pass rusher because pressures are either the same, or almost at least as good, as sacks. That argument won over some Bills fans at first, but its been like 5 years this has gone on and we never notice him in games. It makes you wonder, what even counts as a "pressure" anyway? if the QB was throwing the ball anyway, and completes the pass, any "pressure" had no effect on the outcome, unlike a sack. I watched this closely for the last 5 years trying to figure out this Jerry Hughes thing and came away thinking it was BS, because he just didnt have any effect on the outcome of the game, regardless of how many "pressures" they say he had. I was interested in what would happen this offseason because he's a free agent. The Bills did not re-sign him, and I was interested to see what his market value might because of this "no sacks, but pressures" thing. I guess no team values his top of the league finishes in pressures, because he's still a free agent and there hasnt even been a peep about a visit or a team interested in signing him. Sacks are obviously much, much more important because you know for certain that it had an impact on the play. I have no idea what a pressure is, how its counted, or whether it even mattered if the pass was completed anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of times where the QB is "pressured" and completes the pass for a touchdown.
     
    ColoradoContrails and REVISion like this.
  15. Brook!

    Brook! 2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    12,216
    Likes Received:
    13,446
    This is what sucks about being a mod. I can't even point out something I see as wrong. You bring a lot of depth to discussions and no matter what everyone says, I learn a lot from your posts. Losing you will be a big blow. But please don't make me regret saying what I felt the moment I read your post.
     
    Noam likes this.
  16. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    32,905
    Likes Received:
    24,275
    NC, you're a old timer so we cut you a lot of slack however, these threats of leaving the board are old. No one is holding you hostage. If you want to leave, then take some time off. TGG.com will survive if you leave or if you stay.

    Your choice man..
     
    barfolomew and bigbucks24 like this.
  17. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    6,779
    For sure. It's telling if a guy is able to pressure a lot but not get sacks over a period of multiple seasons. It probably just means he has the general idea of how to pass rush well but either isn't skilled or athletic enough to seal the deal enough for it to count.

    A sack is usually a drive killer, it's just below a turnover in terms of single-play impact on defense.

    We went through a similar debate here regarding Leonard Williams, who some defended with their lives based on claims of "hidden production", including pressures. Which reminds me of a thread I think you'll enjoy reading:

    The Return of the Hidden Production: A Quinnen Williams Story

    Some may argue that thread was too harsh, and it probably was. However, 2 years later and it's looking more accurate than inaccurate.
     
  18. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,918
    Likes Received:
    8,782
    While I respect the sack factor I’m way over the rational that you measure his past value mostly by that. Nor was Lawson brought in for his sack value, so that criticism is also meaningless to me. Disruptions and causing QB to rush errant passes is huge, and we have not had any of that for ever. The opposing QB sits in the pocket forever and picks us apart. Brady and many other great QBs rarely gets sacked, but they faulter while under heavy pressure, deadly accurate without it. So screw that. Further, most casual fans watching the game have zero clue about the effectiveness of a defender on each and every play beyond the obvious tackle for a loss and a sack. Most subtleties like disrupting plays, sucking up double teams to free someone else, and cause the O to plan for him at all times go unnoticed. So enough with his value to this team based on one factor, in fact, I don’t give two shits about past assessments at this point. The injury is unfortunate but part of the game, and many of great pass rushers with less muscle bound physic than him have been plagued by it. All I care is to see him healthy and in action as a Jet before we proclaim his value. Fuck the rest.
     
  19. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    47,330
    Likes Received:
    16,554
    TIL that if you search the word "quit" under username NCJetsfan, right around 90% of the search results are personal attacks.
     
    FJF, KingRoach, Yankjetfan and 4 others like this.
  20. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8,816
    Likes Received:
    7,690

    He’s played a full schedule 2 out of the 5 years he’s been in the NFL, the Bengals defense improved when they signed Hendrickson to the point where they helped team get to SB. They did not miss Lawson.

    Until he proves he can be that elite pass rusher on a consistent basis then I’m going to be a realist and see what’s in front my eyes, not what I hope to be the reality.

    With regards to Moseley, man has the best year of his career last year, he slimmed down and played extremely well. I have no beef with Mosley. He needs LB help, I do don’t know how Saleh and JD can be happy with current LB situation.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page