Lets get real here as Jet fans for once... Do you all really think than Kellen has been playing behind a top 15 Offensive-Line? I don't. The only bright sports we have on this Offensive Line is Ferguson at LT who has the potential to be a franchise LT for years to come, who will be entering his 3rd year as a starter next year and Mangold as our Center who has All Pro written all over his style of play... And thats it... 2 Quality starters on the O-Line??? With 3 other players who are nothing more than career backups. I have all the faith in the front office that they will go out and add another quality starter to open up some holes for the running game aswell as help protect the QB and give Kellen a little more time in the pocket to make his reads. Maybe... Just maybe thats what Kellen needs... More than two Quality Offensive lineman blocking for him because to tell you the truth, any QB would struggle behind this Offensive line, even Brady or Manning. Sometimes Brady has a good 5-7 seconds to sit in the pocket and pick apart opposing defenses... That has not been the case for Kellen this year. ----------------------------------------------------------- Lets not forget that Chad Pennington was getting all of the snaps with the first string players during this past offseason along with the preseason. I'm not some type of Kellen homer, matter of fact I have always been a Chad Pennington supporter and to tell you all the truth... I knew nothing about Kellen before this year started. I was even against giving him a chance to start for the Jets this year. What can I say other than I thought Chad could still get it done? But Kellen has the Arm to make just about any throw on the field... He also has a great pocket pressence for a first year starter and I love the fact that he can avoid the rush, escape the pocket, and pickup the tough yards and first downs on the ground when the pocket breaks down or when the defender has a wide open lane for the sack. He kinda reminds me of Big Ben from the Steelers in the way he plays. Next year Kellen will be a 3rd year player and a 2nd year starter, playing behind two offesnive lineman in Brick and Mangold who will both be 3rd year starters and a running back in Thomas Jones who will have a better feel for how this offensive line blocks for him in the running game. Lets not forget that this will be Kellens first offeseason ever where he is actually getting the starting reps with the first string players during training camp aswell as the preseason. This will be Kellens first offseason getting a chance to build chemestry with his WR's, Cotchery and also Coles if we keep him, the O-Line, Thomas Jones and Leon Washington, Mangini, Martys boy... How about we give Kellen a full offseason and a full preseason before we pull the plug and call him a R.Leaf type bust...
Don't know if I would have devoted a thread to this, but I agree that some members of this board are being way too harsh on Clemens. They must not be seeing the same horrendous offensive line play that I am seeing. Next year will not be about TJ getting more comfortable with the offensive line, it will be about being associated with an offensive line who is capable of openning some legitimate holes in any defense we face. Darn near every time the guy has been givien the ball this year, he has run into nothing; no hole whatsoever - no running back has a chance under those conditions.
Good post....the things you see, I see...I think the negatives in Clemens game can be corrected. Schott. help changed Brees into the QB that he is today, maybe if he isn't fired he can help Clemens on his game. Don't know how many QB's we have to lose to injury to convince people that this Oline blows. Doesn't matter who's back there, games are won in the trenches.
I don't need any convincing. I would rank our offensive line among the 5 worst in the entire NFL, and they make a strong case to take the #1 seed.
From what I 've seen of KC , regardless of how the O line plays , I don't think that he will be anything other than average. I'm not saying hes a bust , not yet , but hes certainly not the next saviour.
Well the reason why I feel we are in better shape than some of the bottom 5 Offensive lines is that we actually have a Potential franchise LT and a pro bowl type center in Mangold... Other than that we pretty much stink up the joint with the remaining 3 starters. Finding a Franchise LT is one of the hardest position for a team to fill, it's kind of like the 3-4 NT... Pretty rare. And finding a dominating center is pretty hard itself... We have alot of holes, but we do not have the biggest holes. The future still looks bright for this O-Line, but it's key for us to add Quality talent to this O-Line this offseason.
Agreed. Which is why IMHO it was a bonehead move to unsettle him by putting in anybody who suited up to play LG. This has unsettled Brick and its obviously lost him alot of confidence. Mangolds' negatives are...................none.
I really based my statement on the play of the line as a unit this year. While Mangold and Ferguson are definitely solid building blocks they were teamed up with others on the offensive line who would struggle to make other team's practice squads with the exception of possibly Bender. Adrien Clarke has been an abyssmal disgrace and is probably the weakest at the positon we have. Unfortunately, we lack anyone else better, and therein lies the problem.
I can't think of a single line worse than ours.... There are poor pass blocking lines, but they can usually get a decent push in the running game... There are poor run blocking lines, but they can usually at least protect the QB a little... We Can't Do Squat
I agree 100% But the fact that Bender has not had any playing time over these scrubs is what scares me.... And we cant blame the fact that he is a rookie for the simple fact that Mangini plays his young players. Ferguson started I believe all 16 games as a rookie last year, same with Mangold. Leon Washington got more than enough playing time as a rookie D.Revis has been starting all season this year as a rookie D.Harris has been starting ever since the Injury to Vilma... And we was also getting playing time before the injury to Vilma. Mangini gave Cotchery and Rhodes playing time as soon as he became the coach. So the fact that Bender has not been playing is not a good sign.... Just go ask Anthony Shegel (I dont even know how to spell his name right) The Boar Hunter... He was a rookie who got NO playing time... And look what happend to him?:Released. So Bender may be gone next season
Great thread. We have the worst offensive line in football PERIOD. Tom Brady would be a dead man with our O-line. Look back to Manning and Elway's first year's, they were horrible, this kid is going to be good we just have to give him time.
Even before yesterday's game KC was throwing most of his passesala ELI off his back foot. He has become gun shy with our poor excuse for a OL. Now with a rib injury to boot it would be in his best interest to bench him and let Chad or Tui finish out the season. Then next year make the move to KC with a decent ol he could be a decent QB. We won't know that this year as he or any other QB couldn't play with this OL.
Could be true about Bender, but I would keep him at least one more year as hopefully a solid backup because he doesn't carry a huge price tag.
I would not hesitate at all to give Tui the ball for the remainder of our season. IMO, this would be smart coaching. It has nothing to do with posturing for draft picks or throwing the season; it has to do with looking at the bigger picture, protecting key investments (Clemens as well as Pennington (Penny's trade value would be exactly that if he gets badly injured with 2 games remaining)). Tui, if he does well, could come back next year as our #2 or very solid #3. Clearly, Brad Smith has pretty much sewn up that he is neither.
It is not reasonable to assume that he is going to be good, but you're absolutely right that we need to give him time... Pulling the plug on a QB after essentially 6 starts is one of the most ridiculous concepts I've ever heard of.... I think you have to give him at the very least 8-10 more starts before we decide if he's the guy or not.... That being said, if Mangini & Co don't try to fix this OL, we may be looking at the next David Carr.... The development of a QB can be brought to sudden halt by an offensive line as offensive as ours
I will go as far as to say that the play of our offensive line has been so glaringly awful as a "must fix at all costs" problem, that if Mangini and Tannenbaum do not do a good job at fixing it; they will both be run out of town at the end of next year. To me, good coaching or even leadership for that matter is about being able to fix situations that are clearly broken. Right now, I can't get too critical because the parts necessary to fix the problem (our offensive line) are not present in our inventory. What happens this off-season in FA and in the draft is what I will use as a really good gauge at what kind of coach and FO we have.
I totally agree and co-sign with the original post. This O-line has been atrocious, Tom Brady would be getting criticized by half the guys here if he started under this line.
Let's take Favre for example. Favre would never have had the re-birth in his career with the same team if he did not have decent offensive line play and solid production from a running game. Put Favre on our team this year and his INT's would be off the charts relative to his TD's.
Put Favre, Brady, Manning, or Big Ben on our team and they would all end up with rib injuries. Our line sucks.
