Bright Side vs. Darkside

I think the roster has better depth than it's had in years, and there's a bunch of promising young players. But the two biggest problems are (1) almost no top-tier talent, and (2) Zach has a high probability of being a bust. Expanding on (1), there are only a couple players on the roster who have ever made a Pro Bowl. There's Laken Tomlinson, CJ Mosley, Greg Zuerlein, and I think that's it. Of those three, only Mosley has ever been elite, and he's a shell of his old self. Relative to the rest of the NFL, that's *really* bad. TGG likes to talk up guys like Becton, Uzomah, Vera-Tucker, Quinnen, etc., but they aren't like the top players other teams have, or like the top players the Jets used to have up until about 10 years ago.

And regarding Zach, his rookie season was concerning. At first, he tried to play like he did at BYU, but he was an interception machine. When he came back later in the season, he stopped throwing interceptions, but he did so by playing like a backup QB instructed not to lose the game. If he's going to succeed, he's going to have to go back to playing normally, but this time without throwing interceptions. He seems like a hard worker, and he has very good arm talent (though not good enough to play like Mahomes), but I'm thinking there's like a 50/50 chance that he plays poorly enough that TGG turns on him by midseason.

So in the end, I think the Vegas projection of 5.5 wins is reasonable, though I'd love to be proven wrong and have it be exciting to be a Jets fan again.

 

If there's one word that describes the 2022 NYJ's... "Potential" would be it. Again, on paper, we've improved quite a bit on both sides of the ball AND on the sidelines as this CS is learning just like the rest of the Organization. If the Jets improve their record in 2022 to the point of no longer being doormats, then I can be excited in 2023. 2022 is the show me year. Potential needs to become reality for this roster and its Leadership. At some point, tangible results have to be shown as they can't keep selling the future without bringing something to the present. "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" doesn't cut it anymore.

In short.. Show Me The Wins. Talk is cheap and Potential means you haven't done it yet. Being good on paper only takes you so far. You have to show it and prove it on the field or else its just more noise to keep the fans engaged.

#JustWinBaby

 

I consider myself a darksider. After more than 50 years as a Jet fan I have been taught to expect the worst. But, I still recognize and appreciate the work of JD. The process and the plan is sound and the best we have seen since the late 70s. That does not mean it will work but I love what JD has done.

In regards to ZW I understand the potential, i saw the accuracy in tight throws, I see the mental toughness, I see improvement from in the pocket, I see him going through his progressions a lot faster and I get the context he was in last year with no supporting cast but I am not a believer until I see it. I need to see him make the routine plays on a consistent basis, I need to see consistent footwork, I need to see him get the ball out a lot faster, I need to see him be accurate consistently and I need to see him play with confidence all the time. Until, I see this improvement I will argue that odds are against him succeeding.

Yes, the Jets let him down last year and did not provide him the support he needed but now they have given him everything he needs and he needs to show progress and play consistently better. He has a lot to improve on. The main thing I want to see is getting the ball out faster with consistent mechanics. Show me that he can consistently execute from within the structure of the offense and then maybe I will believe. Until then I would argue the odds are against him and any young QB.

 

I agree with this, but I am enjoying the off-season and the moves that we have made in free agency and the draft. I do not think Zach needs to be a top 10 QB this season if the Jets play like they want to play. If the defense improves, I do not see any way it cannot, Zach does need to be a game manager
until he doesn't in situations. If Zach has to throw for 300 plus yards for us to win we will be in 4-5 category again. The jets are building a running team. The Tampa game is the blueprint for the Jets in the upcoming season if they want to push the 8-10 wins. Zach will have to play within himself and the defense will have to give the offense a couple more possession.

The Philly game cannot happen next season. You cannot score TD on your first 3 possession and the next time you get on the field you are behind. If Zach has Jimmy G like season 3500 yards 20 + TDs the Jets will be in contention for a playoff birth.

 

If Zach was a top 20 to 25 QB all season I would be fine with that as that would be far the best season of any Jet QB since 2008 absent Fitz. If he can do that he will be in a good position to improve in successive years. But as a Jet fan I won't believe it until I see it. I am really excited about our new team and the FO but I still expect the worst.

 

I don’t think of myself as a darksider…more so a guarded optimist. I like this idea though of the position by position review, so here’s my take

QB…here I fall into the above comments…I’m very much a wait till I see it with Zach as opposed to really believing he’s the guy. He was bad last year. And despite all the talk of how he “improved” when he got back, the stats did not reflect that AT ALL outside of throwing fewer picks. No key stats improved. Not YPG, not YPA, not completion rate, nothing. I will allow that he had a shit supporting cast due to lack of depth and injury, so I do have hope. But it’s not blind hope, and for me I think he has a chance of busting out. To me, I saw way too many passes at open receivers feet…too many gimme throws that were missed. I can understand growing pains throwing picks into tighter coverages…to me that’s welcome the the NFL, rookie. I understand that. But missing wide open receivers and throwing behind them or over their heads or at their feet is troubling. There were way too many of those. So I’m cautiously hopeful but really more I’ll believe it when I see with Zach.

RB: I don’t know about strongest in the NFL, but I’m very happy with this group overall…pairing Hall with Carter should be a lot of fun to watch and will hopefully help keep Carter healthy. We’ll done, JD!

WR: I really like the combo of skills in this group with Moore, Davis, Wilson and Berrios. If Denzel can give us anything at all, it’s a solid group. My only concern is injuries again as our two top guys missed time. If they can stay on the field, it’s a solid group.

TE: solid group…we’ve been missing that for years…after signing two in free agency, I was a bit surprised at the third round pick of another TE when we had bigger needs at OT and LB there, but it does make for a solid room now.

OL: I like this group a lot now and it’s solid from LT to RG. I hope AVT makes the move to LG easily. My real concern here is Becton. I am way down on him. He’s too big too immature and out of shape. I don’t know if his 6-8 week injury cost him all year because he’s just too big or he didn’t take his rehab seriously enough but either of those reasons are bad ones. I would have preferred taking an OT in the draft to push him rather than to back him up (probably would have gone OT at 4 instead of CB but that ship has sailed). Long story short, we are relying on an injury prone player without a great work ethic and we don’t have a solid backup option like we did last year with Moses. Having not gone OT at 4, I would have liked to see us resign Moses but that ship sailed as well. I think we need a training camp add at RT because I think we can count on Becton missing some time for the third year in a row. Still, the OL is improved over the last few seasons so we should be at least average, and potentially very good if Becton can stay on the field. That’s a big IF.

DL: this group has gotten stronger, and while we don’t have a proven double digit sack guy on the roster, it feels like we have a solid rotation at DE that should be able to provide some pressure. Lawson has been an injury prone player who surprise surprise got hurt again. Like Becton, him playing a full season is a big IF but if he can give us meaningful snaps, and if the two rookies can deliver, we may have a decent pass rush for the first time in a long time. I think we have some holes at DT but we should have enough that our rotation should hold up. Optimistic with this group.

LB: we have holes here, and I think we’re still vulnerable to dump offs to RBs and TEs as we’ve been for as long as I can remember, and Belichick knows that well. I’m a bit surprised we didn’t address this area more in the draft but I do like Quincy’s energy and CJ is still a leader. I guess we had bigger holes to fill and JD did well in other spots and chose to leave this area for next year so I’ll trust his judgment. This is probably the weakest area on our team.

DB: I thought this group overperformed last year for being so young, so I was a bit surprised to see us go CB at 4…if Sauce is the real deal then I’ll be really good with it, but maybe I’m just shell shocked by other players who busted for us like Dee Milliner, Kyle Wilson and Tru Johnson…obviously none of them have anything to do with Sauce and any player at any position can bust, so it’s just my own issue. It was a solid pick by all accounts and I like our CB group a lot…if we have to go through a lot of tough receiver groups we’ll need all the help we can get. Safety is still a bit of a question so we’ll see, but I don’t cringe when I look at our secondary.

so there is my take…I think this roster has gotten better, it’s young, we have cap space (but of course you SHOULD have cap space if you’re not paying a QB and you have no probowlers on the team!), and we have only a few holes at LB and S if our guys can stay on the field. Of course, that was one of our biggest issues last year so it’s still a risk, but it feels like our depth is much better so we’re more prepared to weather that storm should it hit.

finally, my last point is that our schedule is absolutely brutal especially facing teams that we have traditionally not done well against in Pitt, Balt, and Cleve…all in a row up front. We’re going to need to steal one or two of those games but I think that will be very difficult. So I totally feel that despite our improved roster, our record may still be shit this year. As usual, I don’t think Vegas is very far off with their 5.5 win line. I’m hoping for about 7-8 wins but I’m not confident in that number unless everyone stays healthy and Zach really does take a huge step now that he’s got much better talent around him

 

Its hard not to get excited about the future of this team. JD has improved the talent and depth of this roster. Zach has been given playmakers to work with. He definitely needs to take that next step and show improvement this year. I don't want to go into his year 3 and still have questions if he can be the guy. The proof will begin in Sept on game days. Show me the wins. I don't expect the playoffs in 2022 but I don't expect the season to be over by Halloween either. If they can show in 2022 that they are heading in the right direction WITH RESULTS ON THE FIELD then 2023 and beyond this team should be able to compete with the top teams in the league.

 

I like the team, I love JD, I like the CS and I like ZW but as Jet fan I don't expect success rather I expect the worst. Until I see the improvement by Zach in many areas I won't jump on the bandwagon as yes the odds are against him and every young QB on a perennial loser. I love the team we have and I believe it is our best chance to turn things around but until I see it from the team and Zach I simply won't believe it. When you ask why people are darksiders that is it for me. More than 50 years of things going wrong in unexpected ways. It does not mean that I am not excited. I just want to see success before I believe it.

 

A lot of great posts in this thread so far.

I definitely consider myself more of an optimist than a darksider but I agree with what most people have said in this thread so far. Zach is gonna have to prove himself before everyone is on board with him, that's just the bottomline.

I like Zach a lot and think he will be the guy but he was bad last year. He doesn't have to become a top 10 QB this year but he can't be a bottom 5 one either, not with all the talent we have on offense now.

I'll also agree that on paper we have talent but at some point this talent will have to translate into W's. At some point, potential has to turn into production otherwise it's all for naught. I'm optimistic that the production and wins will come this year but I can totally understand why some may not share that viewpoint.

At the very least, even if the production and wins don't materialize this year, I feel like JD has set us on a good path forward which should give all of us some optimism.

Can we just go ahead and trademark the slogan, "We Will See" for the 2022 Jets? Print the T-Shirts.

 

The problem with tearing a team down to the bare bones is that it leaves too many holes to fill with the limited draft picks and cap space a team has in the first couple years of the rebuild.

Lack of protection and weapons not only limits the ability of the offense to succeed but removes accountability for the quarterback who gets a laundry list of excuses for failure to deliver on the scoreboard.

It also leaves a defense with holes that are easily exploited by opposing defenses.

Before we traded away super safety Jamaal Adams we had a difference maker that covered for weak players.

Without him we were able to evaluate and remove the dead weight.

The teams that go deep in the playoffs are armed with several draft classes that helped them find the star players not available in free agency necessary to succeed.

We are about four years into building this team if we consider Quinnen Williams to be the first big piece.

We should be expecting results this year and many excuses we accepted in the last two to three years won't cut it anymore.

Despite the tough schedule six wins should be attainable and Zach Wilson needs to take off the training wheels.

 

It's hard to believe that any long time Jet fan can't see the difference between this rebuilding and other half-harted attempts in the past. As fans who claim to know football today the disappointments of the other years are irrelevant. They have a clear vision to where they want to go and the steps it will take to get there.

 

I agree. There are a number of things that are different.
1. This is a complete rebuild from the bottom up. Not a quick fix like we have seen for the last 30 years.
2. The focus on using draft capital on premium positions.
3. The coordination between CS and FO.
4. All the draft picks and FA acquisitions all fit the schemes being used. Not only do they fit the scheme there is a coordination between all of them. DJ Reed, Whitehead and Joyner all excel at zone coverage as does Sauce. We were weak in zone last year on early downs putting the defense in bad spots. Look at the TEs we brought in and how they fit the system with their blocking and CJs YAC. This is the 1st time in forever where I have seen the FO and CS work together.
5. Focus on getting good value in FA with giving us outs to create cap flexibility.
6. Focus on character in FA and draft picks to change the culture which has made the Jets a place that is more attractive.
7. ZW may not work out but the FO us giving him a solid roster that can support a young QB with a good OL, strong backfield and talented WRs.
8. The FO has not only improved the quality of our starters but our backups are much better. When we have injuries we should be better able to respond.


The plan may not work but it is a solid plan and process building through the trenches with high character players. But it gives us hope and a chance.

 

"Highly-touted" QB had one good year in college in a strange season against lesser opponents. He was miserable last year from start to finish with the only improvement being that he ate the ball a lot more after he came back from the injury. His completion percentage after the injury was 53.9%. His yards per completion (not attempt, completion) was 10.7, meaning he wasn't even throwing deep for that crappy 53.9%.

I can't get past the QB in terms of evaluating the 2022 Jets at this point. I saw nothing last year to suggest that he was an NFL QB.

You can talk about flashes and throws all you want and it isn't going to make ZW even as good as Jeff George and Jeff George blew chunks.

 

Jeff George had a very long career in the NFL.

I would take him over Sanchez.

 

Yeah, and the vast majority of them never ended up becoming good QBs. Most QBs bust, it's a really hard position to play well. The bust rate is even higher when you put together a bad first season.

To sum up the darksider perspective:

We've had many "successful" offseasons in the past that didn't translate to many more wins. The jury is out on Saleh as a coach. Zach is a huge question mark.

We've done a lot of things right this offseason, but I don't blame anyone for wanting to see it before they'll believe it. I think that's the only logical stance with the Jets given the 10+ years of ineptitude we've been on.