Brainlessly bash former Jet employee, Brian Schottenheimer

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by ThunderbirdJet, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Jetrik

    Jetrik Well-Known Member

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    I'm amazed that we know so much about running and NFL offense. Little do these teams know that such capable coaching talent is dispersed on La-Z-Boys across the land.
     
  2. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Schotty is that he is not horrible or not great he is just average. That means he will call some great games and plays and other times not that is why both sides can defend or ride him.

    The problem is if you get rid of average you could end up with below average of course you can also end up with above average. Schotty is an average OC and the JETS have an average offense.
     
  3. Jet Blue

    Jet Blue New Member

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    THE problem IMO is that next year should be the last year of the Sanchez experiment and if we wind up with a New OC that will probably mean excuses for Sanchez and a year maybe 2 more of having a limited offense needing an alltime Defense and All tiem Running game to win.


    I'd want Callahan to be the OC if this happens and then become even more conservative but at least call the right play at the right time and more smash mouth over trickery and trying to outsmart everyone.

    You can be More conservative than a Shotty offense butm still know when to take a shot down field and when you line em up and just smash it.
     
  4. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The issues with Schotty's schemes, the predictability, the failure to exploit clear mismatches, the failure to properly utilize personnel are so glaring that the players have called him out on it, the media has called him out on it, that the fans would follow suit is not armchair QBing, it's human nature.

    Some day we'll look back on the Schotty years and we'll have a better perspective on what was wrong during them. My gut at this point tells me that Schotty is a really nice low-key likeable guy and people who work with him really don't want to piss in his cornflakes. He's a smart guy and he's persuasive enough to sell his system to players until they've played in it for a few years at which point the likeability and the fact that the system is clunky and does not work well collide and cause the players real issues in expressing the problems present in the schemes.

    Chad was the nicest guy you ever met. He wouldn't say a bad word about anybody. By midway in his second season in Schotty's offense he was essentially checking down on every other play because even he couldn't figure out who he was supposed to be throwing too otherwise. The Jets were losing games left and right at that point for other reasons also but Chad had figured out how to survive in the system without rocking the boat.

    One of the few times I saw Chad visibly upset was after he'd gotten benched for Clemens. He didn't call Schotty's system out but he basically said that he was doing the best he could given what was available to him. That was as close to truth-telling as anybody has come with Schotty's system.

    I'm waiting for Sanchez to hit the point where Schotty's likeability is outweighed by the fact that his schemes are dragging everybody else down. Unlike Chad it won't be easy to run Sanchez out of town. At least not without Tannenbaum going along for the ride.
     
  5. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    And also Rex as he has said multiple times to the media...

    The bolded section is right on. Sanchez is a 3rd year QB and only started a years at USC so he's still learning. Too many people forget this. The only two constants Sanchez has had in that time is Schotty and Dustin Keller. Given what he was, Sanchez has proven he could win without all of the numbers and stats.

    The problem I have is that the offense just NEVER looks in sync, and I truly believe thats on coaching, specifically Schotty, and their preparation. Top QB's and offenses get to that point not only because theyre are special, but also because they are in a system that fits their play and they also practice every play that may be called in a game religiously. We all know Schotty's system doesnt fit Sanchez's abilities, but Im really starting to think that the preparation this offense sees is subpar.

    Im just hoping that this team hires a new OC that can design a system around the QB (success seen in Denver, Carolina and Detroit- each system fits the individual QB's strengths) and also bring a new mentality towards practice and preparation. I guarantee the difference between a Schotty run practice with the Jets and GB's offense is night and day.
     
  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Well the real question is: what is the point of an offensive coordinator?

    Is an offensive coordinator there to develop his system? Is he there to get the best out of his players? Is he there to facilitate a lot of points being scored by the offense? Is he there to maintain time of possession and control of the game?

    I would argue pretty strongly that the first thing I listed is absolutely not in the realm of an offensive coordinator's responsibilities but the last three are key. Too often I feel like the first thing I listed is the Jets main goal on offense and that's why the offense holds the team back.

    When the Jets keep switching the offensive system and immediately begin winning and winning in big games as a result I think it is a clear indictment of the main system.
     
  7. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly the best thing to do, is coach up the coach, and have the player grow as well.

    Switching the system takes longer than fixing it. Schotty is not really a long tenured OC, and fixing his assumptions might allow him to fix what's broken.

    It seems that's one of the goals of having Moore here....

    Ideally you wouldn't want him to be developing his system, and for the first 5 years, he hadn't...If he can fix it with help this year...

    It's undeniable he's doing a better job, but it's not been against good teams, or teams that can create pressure. (Denver the most recent example).

    If he learns to produce on your second point, the other two would follow.

    We should have a near unstoppable ball control offense, given that we have 4 pretty good short area receivers.
     
  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Schotty is actually an incredibly long-tenured OC at this point. There are a small handful of NFL OC's working with the same team in their 5th season or longer.

    This is for a lot of reasons but the most obvious is that if an OC is good they get a better job somewhere else fairly quickly and if they are not good they get canned, or the coach they work for gets canned and they go with him.

    Dick LeBeau is the Steeler's DC long-term because he's one of the best coaches in the NFL and he couldn't hack the head coaching job in Cincinnati and came back to the Steelers when he failed at it. Since coming back to the Steelers in 2004 their defense has been ranked #1 four times in eight seasons. The worst finish has been 9th. That's why he is DC for life there.

    Scotty in six seasons has had a top 10 offense zero times. That's why he should be out the door. You don't hire coaches to create middle of the road units. If you do that then you deserve to be a middle of the road team which is right where the Jets are now.
     
  9. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Since Rex has not done that yet, and probably is not about to, can you give me a heads up when you plan on starting the Fire Rex thread? Thanks.
     
  10. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. I as going to say long tenured, in terms of success, and in multiple spots.

    e.g Weis, Haley, Payton.. etc.... I meant to point out not by virtue of us putting up with him...
     
  11. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I agree with this. I openly question why Sanchez is not given play-action plays more often as well. His pump fake and his play-action are his best weapons, then his mobility. Plays utilizing his best traits aren't called nearly often enough (or if they're being called, they're letting Sanchez "KILL KILL KILL" out of them far too often).

    That's on Schotty, and also on Rex and Moore. Sanchez can be successful in specific situations. So put him in them. He's your QB, call the plays that coincide with his strengths.

    I'm not sure why it gets ignored, but I've repeated it so many times in this thread that the staff does not trust Sanchez to throw downfield, and with good reason.

    While his completion % is rising again, he's still shaky on his ability to connect. He throws too many over his targets' heads, and too many behind his man. That's ignoring how often he stares down his target too long, giving it away and giving defenders the jump on it (translating to pick-6s). We've actually heard opposing players flat out say Sanchez gives away his targets.

    That's why they don't take shots downfield. Even the best QBs aren't as accurate downfield as they are within 20. You're basically chucking it up and letting your receivers do all the work. That's fine for, say, Burress, who saved our season on just such a play, but Holmes lacks the height to do it. Tone makes plays once the ball is in his hands. So you stick with the high-percentage throws and allow him to make his magic.

    I can honestly say I am about as close to never wanting to see an empty backfield as one can be. The only time I can see an empty backfield having any value is on a clear Hail Mary play. Otherwise, as you said, create the illusion that the run is a possibility.

    Again, this is all coaching. It has gotten a little better lately though, so hopefully things are getting on track.

    I don't really agree with you here. Unless you're definitely going to pass it, load up the line. You have Shonn Greene and John Conner to pound it in. Either they get it in, or you should pack it in now.

    The Jets are, or at least should be, a run-first team. You have to trust your guys to put it in from X-and-Goal.

    In fairness, until the past couple of games, the OLine for the Jets has left much to be desired. I don't know how the Saints line has played, but in fairness to Sanchez, he's lacked time to get comfortable in the pocket.

    Something that helps with batted passes, and I can't understand why they're not stressing this to Mark, is the pump fake. He has a very good one, and he's used it far too sparingly this year.

    Lack of execution. That's what I've been saying all year.

    Why is it they play flat after weeks where Rex claims, and everyone repeats, that the team had its best practices? That's a lack of execution. Is that because the coaching staff is entirely clueless, or is it guys blowing their routes, or Sanchez misjudging his targets?

    I'm going to guess that it's not the entire coaching staff having wool sunglasses over their eyes. Especially when after bad games Sanchez is saying he expected Holmes to be somewhere else when he threw the ball.

    Sanchez is better downfield when everything else is already working. When the running game is on and the D has to respect it, when guys let him know in the huddle that there's a specific window to hit, things like that.

    I feel bad always dinging Sanchez because I do feel he has potential. The problem is, he spends way too much time overthinking, and not enough time just playing the game. Part of that is coaching, but part of that is also him needing to grow up already.

    I get that he's still young, but he's a third year NFL QB. The time for excuses is over.

    Again, I honestly feel that with all of the mistakes he makes in the passing game, especially the INTs and the balls that misplayed by defenses that should be picked, the coaching staff just doesn't trust him to make throws further down the field.

    I'd love to see him execute more throws in the 15-20 yard range. That's the area where Holmes can make an impact. Once that's established, the middle should be open for Keller and Kerley. If you get all of them clicking, you open the big time playmaking ability of Burress downfield.

    But you also need the running game to be motoring to open all of that up. Until recently, I don't think it was reasonable to say the ground attack was effective enough (not to mention poor protection up front).

    I hope that recent developments are a sign of things to come. The first key being much better line play lately.
    ------------

    Again, Schottenheimer doesn't deserve a free pass. There are some playcalls in-game that drive me absolutely bat-shit crazy. The key is, and it's always been my stance on the subject, is that overall Schotty is a good coach and the players are failing at their jobs.

    Yes, he makes some asinine calls, and some bad plays are a direct result of the wrong call being made. However, when you miss out on sure TDs because your QB throws behind his receiver (who is known for running crisp routes) it's hard to pin that on the coach when the drive stalls. Whatever the playcall, the players have to play the game.
     
  12. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    experiment... lol
     
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The real problem is that the Jets are going to have to fire Schotty. There's no place to slide him to the side in the organization the way they did with Bradway and nobody is going to hire him as a head coach or offensive coordinator off of the failures he's had with the Jets. Teams look for hot coaches on a roll, not guys treading water.
     
  14. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    What will you do and say if they bring him back next year? I can hardly wait to see.

    It's frankly all good for me. I could be wrong and the Jets bring in some new OC who magically turns the team into the best O in the league. Hey, I would love to be that wrong.

    Or they bring Schotty back next year. And all the Schotty Haters look foolish.

    Or they fire Schotty, and his replacement does no better. At least that would help clarify the problem probably lies elsewhere, although the downside may instead be that they just got a new OC with new problems.

    It's all good.
     
  15. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    If they bring Schotty back next year I'll look at the personnel and try to figure out whether they've fixed enough holes to win 10 or 11 games or if we're likely to regress to 8 or 9 wins.

    I don't think you can win big in the NFL with a flat offense and Schotty's specialty is flat offenses.
     
  16. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    You leave out the possibility that if he is brought back, it's because he's finally progressed as a coordinator.
     
  17. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho Trolls

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    He stuck to realistic possibilities I suppose.
     
  18. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    Look, the Red Zone success, and the expansion of Tom Moore's duties to full time, seems to say that the organizational perspective is that Schotty can be saved from himself.

    And I would say as a long time vociferous detractor, that it appears to have a very good chance of working.

    There are two real components.

    Moore teaching Schotty.

    Moore Teaching Rex...

    As Blocker is so fond of pointing out, Rex has the responsibility ultimately. But He's only in his 3rd year as a HC. As he gains realistic perspective, he'll be able to take a more critical eye towards his underlings.
     
  19. Johnny "Lam" Jones

    Johnny "Lam" Jones Active Member

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    Updated. :)
     
  20. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    They are first in RZ TD scoring. The % only went up after this game.
     

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