Brainlessly bash former Jet employee, Brian Schottenheimer

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by ThunderbirdJet, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. GordonGecko

    GordonGecko Well-Known Member

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    A: naked pictures of Woody Johnson & Schottenheimer's dog
     
  2. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    I do not disgree as anyone with even a degree of knowledge about the game would recognize that some plays are more likely to come out of certain formations than others. For example, no backs and five wideouts, well it could still be a running game with an end around or some other trick, but yes, it is telling the D something. But what of it? The Jets are not the only team in the league running pretty much all the formations they typically use. And one should hardly suggest that certain types of plays that might work should never be called because they are somewhat more predictable than others.

    If it's fourth and a foot, I am sure you as well as I would go nuts if they didn't put in a basic running formation in. And when they did, the D would be pretty good at predicting what is coming. So?

    On the other hand Schotty does put in some trick plays from time to time, to be sure. Sometimes they aggravate me, too, when they don't work, but I can see that the Jets are trying to keep opponents on their toes.

    Maybe it's my fault, but I tend to see the what predictability there is in the Jet offense as usually tied to the game situation or the limitations of the personnel, not to mention Ryan's stated philosophy. The same formation that led to Holmes's TD had previously been used to throw it to Greene for a good gain. We all know that the Jets, like other teams, can run different plays out of the same formation. I just don't think there's much there there to your post.
     
  3. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Do you think when that play was called that Schotty KNEW where Reed would line up? KNEW Reed was coming?

    I see from the replay that Sanchez did not even look at Reed, and apparently did not see him coming. Not to mention that the blockers did not block him.

    How is that on Schotty? It is about execution.
     
  4. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    This team goes empty backfield and shot gun way more than a good running team should. Very little advantage to doing it and it's probably a big reason we have so many 3 and outs.

    If you'r QB isn't accurate why would you want him throwing short routes into the teeth of the D where an int is likely to be run back or provide the opposition great field position. Deep passes that are less accurate are also less costly when they turn over. Additionally the chances of PI goes up considerably when the ball is in the air for a long time and DB's are turned around. Those PI's that are on the increase significantly offset the loss of completion percentage.

    A short drop with a QB who is also relatively short often creates a bigger problem when pass protection is poor. Throwing lanes and sight lines are destroyed. The QB is throwing into a wall.

    For all of Sanchez's faults he has excellent and very quick footwork. He is certainly capable of a deep quick drop which will open up passing lanes and sight lines and allow him to step up and throw which is one of his biggest issues with accuracy.
     
  5. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    2 WR's. I formation. On First down. 75% of the time??? How does that fit your premise?
     
  6. The_W

    The_W Banned

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    Spot on. This play is on the QB and the lineman (Moore?) making the line calls. They made a horrible pre-snap read, not realising where Reed was lined up, which ended up himcoming free on the QB.
    Anybody who can pin this fucking debacle, which was the Ravens game, on the OC doesn't know what he is talking about. It was totally on the ineptness of the offensive line which prevented the whole offense from functioning, and therefor giving us any chance of winning this game. The only reason why we generated any points, was the great play made by McKnight and the STs, and the performance organized by Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco.

    What I had to complain about CS is the decision to shuffle the line in the middle of the game. It did nothing good evident because we went back to the old lineup and only hampered Baxter's and the rest of the O's confidence.
     
  7. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    I would respectfully disagree with your first two points, but the third is indeed accurate.

    However the playcalling on first down lends to 2 wr's in the pattern, in the mid-level range...in the same vicinity.

    And that's my problem with the OC. 3/4 wide on first down, coupled with your astute observation, and the CURRENT personnel, should lead to an offense that's far more productive than the product we get.


    And the proof of that is in the 4th quarter pudding.
     
  8. Royal Tee

    Royal Tee Girls juss wanna have fun
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    I think many of us give Shotty credit when he deserves it,
    2 problems
    - He rarely deserves it
    - Shotty lubbers overlook it when we do.
     
  9. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Did you ignore the 2nd paragraph?

    Holy fuck I know all of that. Go macro.
     
  10. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Dude, the OL never gave him over 2.0 seconds to throw in the entire game.

    It was documented.
     
  11. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Biggs,

    I saw the stat I quoted. Before the pass to Holmes for the TD, Sanchez was one for ten in passes more than 10 yards past the LOS. I don't disagree with much of your general comments, except I do not think Sanchez has all his fundamentals together. But I think the CS does not find him to be an efficient down field passer, which bothers me very much since he clearly has better arm strength than Chad. He's just not accurate down the field.
     
  12. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    It should be obvious. THat is a ground and pound formation. Don;t you agree?

    Anyway, saying 2 wideouts with Keller in there is, you will concede, a bit different than if the TE were a run blocker. Keller effectively is a hybrid TE/WR.
     
  13. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    We have some good parts on O what we don't have is a blocking TE that can give you anything in the passing game and our blocking FB can't give you anything in the passing game. That's a little limiting on strong run formations set up to block against a loaded box something the HC prefers.
     
  14. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Did Emmitt Smith have problem rushing because Jay Novacek couldn't block a road pylon? I didn't think so.

    Now the problem is that Conner is not the lead blocker that Johnstone is, but Keller being able to block is a bonus, not a necessity. On top of that, if Keller's blocking is that deficient, (It IS a problem, but a marginal one as opposed to the main problem you make it seem like.) Schottenheimer should motion Keller AWAY from the tackle box, essentially allowing same effect as blocking one man. (Did we see this at all? I don't think so?)
     
    #4274 Zach, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  15. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Just peeking my head in for a minute to see my favorite thread.

    I read through this thread and I see this was acknowledged a bit, but not a lot. Ryan specified that he wanted more Wildcat this week. So Schotty gave him more Wildcat.

    Rex even said he called the one leading to a TD.

    Exactly.

    I can't understand the schizophrenia around here. One minute it's "Schotty's too conservative" the next it's "Schotty gets too cute!"

    The terrible passes are always a bigger problem than a poor playcall. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, they all get bad calls that they then turn around and make into gains. That's why they're elite.

    And this happens a lot. Sanchez just makes awful throws at times. There's nothing anyone can do about that.

    I remember one overthrow that should have been picked off over the middle. I remember a ball that was tipped (and may have even hit a DL's helmet) which could have been an INT with an athletic play.

    Where you say "over-analyzed" I say "dodged a bullet, twice."

    I'll take the win, but this was the Washington Redskins. They should never have been in the game with us. Defense or not, they're not even reasonably in the playoff conversation. Against a decent team, we would've lost.

    They've proven they can win with top-5 defense, a solid rushing attack, and top-tier OL play.

    Which of those is at the same level as the past two years this year?

    The problem is, the playcalling is attempting to mask our QB's shortcomings. He can't throw downfield. At all.

    People seem to forget that the only reason we're even still in the playoff hunt right now is because Plaxico Burress is tall and has ridiculously long arms.

    The passing playcalls must be short routes by necessity. What I will say though is that more of Sanchez's shortcoming could be masked with more pump fakes and playaction, both of which he executes near flawlessly, and neither of which he does often enough. That's on Schotty.

    Keller is a point I have to bring up, and he's part of my criticism against Schotty.

    Why are Keller and Holmes not a bigger part of this offense? Keller is a physical mismatch on anyone covering him. Holmes' natural talent makes him a mismatch on whoever is covering him. I'd add in Burress as well, but I'll just give benefit of the doubt that he's rusty or something.

    While I blame Sanchez for not finding these guys (and not hitting them when they're open) they don't seem to be primary targets ever. These are playmakers. These are the guys you have to design a play for that says "this is his ball, if he's not open, throw it away."

    That's my primary criticism of Schottenheimer. He needs to knock off giving Sanchez so much freedom to think out there. Sometimes you just have to call a play and have the offense execute it. No pre-snap motion. No "KILL KILL KILL" bullshit. Just send in the play, snap the ball, hit the target.
    --------------

    BTW: All the Schotty haters do realize that not only was Tom Moore in camp all last week, specifically giving input on every play being practiced, but he was also up in the booth with a headset on in Washington. One would assume he would've said something if he thought the playcalls weren't good, no?

    The problem isn't the playcalling. Even the players have been saying that lately.
     
  16. JoeWillie130

    JoeWillie130 Well-Known Member

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    Here's some things I see that I don't like with the offense. Do I think schotty should take all the blame?...no but he has to take a lot of it

    - Not enough rollouts for Sanchez. We all know he is good on the move. He's not one of the taller QB's in the league and has openly said he sees the field better when rolling out. How many designed roll outs do we see a game. One or two tops if I remember correctly. This is all on the Schotty and Rex.

    - 2nd and short. Perfect play to take a shot downfield in the passing game and it never happens. We do throw on second and short often except it's generally a pass of no more than 5 yards. Not 100% sure who gets blame on this one. It seems to me that most of the routes we run are short routes in scenarios like these but whether at the game or watching on TV I could have missed a deep option out there that sanchez may have passed up on for whatever reason (pass rush, receiver covered, just didn't see him...etc).

    - 3rd and short with empty backfield. Hasn't been happening as much lately probably because we need the RB in there to protect but it drives me crazy. At least give off the elusion of a run.

    -Goal line run plays with no wideouts. SPREAD THE FIELD! I understand sometimes you just want to say hey this is what we are doing and impose your will but this year we have not been dominating in the trenches like we used to so mix in some spread formations.

    Also I have been watching a lot of Drew Brees lately, who I consider to be similar in size to Sanchez (even though sanchez is listed as 2 inches taller), and it seems like he always has a passing lane open for him to step up and throw through. When Sanchez is in the pocket I never see these types of lanes open. Sanchez always has to throw over the line and gets a lot of batted passes. Not sure if this can be coached. Maybe some kind of blocking techniques or schemes can be used to try and open up passing lanes? Not sure if I am making t his up but it seems like its more than just dumb luck that all these passing lanes open for him.
     
  17. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Some of me thinks part of Sanchez's struggles and the offense's as a whole is preparation.

    Hearing of Aaron Rodgers, he says that the GB offense never calls a play in a game that they havent rehearsed over and over to where everyone is comfortable with it. I know Aaron Rodgers is a freak of nature, but if our offense did this Im pretty sure it would show. Idk if this is on Schotty, which it probably is, but its probably something that should be addressed. Just another reason to sign Tom Clements, the GB qb coach...

    The offense never looks really in sync and the plays dont look like they were religiously rehearsed, more so slapdick plays thrown together the two days before game day on Schottys computer that look so picture perfect, but when they come to real life, they turn into hot garbage
     
  18. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    I've been watching a lot of Brees too and noticed he drops back 10-12 yards on a lot of plays, while Sanchez does not even remotely. Its always a 3 step drop, and quick slant... which is most likely dropped or misthrown. Brees also plays tall, always on his toes and throws so perfectly...

    Also, I would like the offense to run more screens with RB and maybe even TE screens with keller. The offense has been running more RB screens and most of them are pretty effective- getting around 10 yards. A TE screen would mix it up and utilize our athletic TE which the coaching staff doent seem to do
     
  19. truthbtold

    truthbtold Well-Known Member

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    I see that Santonio Holmes is averaging 14 yards per carry this season. Why aren't we feeding this guy the rock 20 - 25 times per game??
    FIRE SCHOTTY!!
     
  20. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Alio//

    1. With due respect, Sanchez is a very prolific downfield thrower. Watch his clips from USC, or some clips even from last year. Maybe he doesn't have Braylon any more, but he did hit Patrick Turner on a long route (20+) a few times this season too. If Turner not being on the same page with Sanchez is the problem, then they should practice more, but all in all, Sanchez can be successful throwing downfield.

    2. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Jets offense is trying to complement ground attack with short passing game. I've been asking this question for some time, but I have yet to see any cogent explanation behind this. To me, that mix is a disaster in the making. What do you make out of it?
     

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