Ari @ Yankees June 12-14

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by typeOnegative13NY, Jun 9, 2007.

  1. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

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    Still got another one vs the Pirates,but what the hell. Lets keep it rolling. Too bad we have Monday off.
     
  2. LockDown24

    LockDown24 Active Member

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    Got tix for the game tues night... Webb vs. Wang I cant wait
     
  3. Pride

    Pride New Member

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    We dont get the revenge matchup w/ RJ
     
  4. 28rogerblaze51

    28rogerblaze51 New Member

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    shade delete some of your freaking messages so i can send you one biatch.
     
  5. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    He beat the Red Sox yesterday to get the Yankees one game closer. So I am happy with him currently. :)
     
  6. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I didn't have any need for vengence in the first place. We kicked him out of town, it's not like he demanded it.

    He won a lot of games here, but people tend to remember that he struggled a few times, and got hurt too often. He was doomed from the day he mushed that cameraman though.

    I've got nothing against him. I prefer Roger to him, but I would still take RJ on my team.

    (Beating the Sox doesn't hurt either.)
     
  7. GreenMachine

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    He was 34-19 with a 4.4 ERA
    He gave up 60 HRs in 2 years here....

    He did suck
     
  8. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I never said he didn't pitch poorly. Just that he did win a lot of games.
     
  9. Jetfanmack

    Jetfanmack haz chilens?

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    Which is more luck than anything else. Is Daisuke pitching better than Pettite this year? No, he just has more run support.
     
  10. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    That's pretty fair I guess. All I'm saying is I don't really care about a revenge game. Revenge would be beating him to win the World Series.
     
  11. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if any of you Yankee fans have been following the work of Wallace Matthews but he's becoming a daily fixture on firejoemorgan.com. Yesterday he wrote a piece saying that Giambi being out of the lineup is the cause for the Yankees recent winning streak. Then today he followed it up with a "Yankees were better off with Brosius" and they should let A-Rod walk so they can spend the money on "the dozens of Mike Stantons and Jeff Nelsons and David Weatherses" out there.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/print...653jun11,0,3217141.story?coll=ny-sports-print

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...12,0,6773390.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists
     
  12. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    The Giambi stuff I fully agree with. He even mentions the "addition by subtraction" I did when this first happened.

    But then he talks about ARod.

    Letting ARod walk would be the dumbest thing I've ever seen from the Yankees, and would unquestionably come back to bite the franchise in the ass.

    He single-handedly carried the ballclub through April, and his resurgent bat over the past couple weeks, together with his newfound ability to handle the spotlight, thereby taking it off the team, has allowed the Yankees to rejoin the major leagues.

    This guy is bringing up things like the Yankees winning without ARod. Okay, but if you want a Scott Brosius at 3rd, you need David Justice, Paul O'Neil, and Bernie Williams in the outfield. You need Tino Martinez at first base. You need to be able to pick and choose who catches today, Posada or Girardi.

    You drop ARod from this lineup, and who do you replace the production with? Abreu is not O'Neil. Matsui is not Justice. Melky could be Bernie, but he's still a baby. No one we have available at first could wash Tino's jock offensively. Cano is an upgrade from guys like Knoblauch, and Jeter is Jeter. Jorge is hitting better than ever, but he's no baby.

    So how do you replace ARod? With a Boggs or Brosius? Please. Both of those guys could hit, Boggs being a great average guy, but come on. How do you replace potentially 60+ HRs, and 160+ RBI? (That's his own statement, based on current pace.) The easy answer is: you don't.
     
  13. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    I'd read the entire Giambi article before you start agreeing with this mental patient.

     
  14. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I did read the entire article. I agree, and have since before Giambi went on the DL that he has been dragging down the Yankees. He is has become a one-dimensional ballplayer, and unlike David Ortiz, he goes stone cold when he cools off. At least Ortiz can be counted on in big situations, regardless of his current situation. (Which makes Ortiz far less one-dimensional than Giambi can even dream of right now.)

    I don't understand the reason for you posting that snippet of the article. It actually supports the argument.

    The fact is, the Yankees have played significantly better since Giambi hit the DL. Damon has become healthier, and moved off the field, allowing Melky to become a fantastic center fielder.

    When Giambi is "on" he's a great hitter, and provides protection to the guy in front of him. Unfortunately, he gets cold for weeks, and leaves guys just hanging. This year, ARod suffered in front of him. Giambi's disappearance from the lineup moved Posada and Matsui up a spot each. Suddenly, ARod is protected by RBI. Is it any coincidence that his run production has increased?

    And here is another thing I haven't seen anyone point out. When Giambi hit the DL, suddenly the total length of hair on the ballclub decreased. Now before you freak out, hear me out.

    It's pretty well known that Giambi was a clubhouse leader. He's always been well-liked, and well-respected by his teammates. I don't know how many people besides me noticed, but over the past couple years, Giambi has allowed his overall appearance to migrate back to his Oakland days. Other guys were following suit. Mientkiewich, and Wang are the two that immediately come to mind.

    The day Giambi went on the DL, both Doug and Chien-Ming came to the park with closely cut hair. Wang has been very good ever since. Doug was playing significantly better until he got hurt as well.

    I know, WTF does a haircut have to do with anything?

    The answer, IMO, is simple. It's about discipline. The Yankees lacked that for most of the season. As soon as Jason left the lineup, the plate discipline that this team has been known for returned.

    It may sound stupid, but I look at it the same way as private schools view uniforms, and Corporate America treats suits with ties. If you look professional, you are more apt to act professionally.

    Is this a fact? Who knows? There's no way to know if appearance has any relevance on performance. By the same token, when my job allows a casual day, people ACT casual. And I've seen the same behavior in any other job I've ever had. When the employees are allowed to be relaxed, they do so.

    The Yankees were far too relaxed, and that was everyone's complaint. Poor fielding was laughed off on the field. Now, there's a distinct lack of complacency. If shaving some hair, and a $20M salary, is all it takes then GOODBYE GIAMBINO!
     
  15. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'll give you this, at least you're attempting to posit a reason for the Yankees playing better due to Giambi's absence, which is more then the writer of the article did. I still don't agree with it though.

    Do you really think that Abreu started hitting because Giambi and his long hair went on the DL and not because he's a great player that got off to a terrible start? You're talking about really small sample sizes here and if anything I would say the Yankees recent "resurgance" is due to shitty teams they've been playing rather then Giambi exiting the lineup.
     
  16. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I don't think Giambi and Abreu have anything to do with each other.

    However, Giambi and his unprofessional self came out of the lineup. That opened the DH spot. Damon was moved into it. Damon is now A LOT more happy, and admits it. Damon's move opened center field for Cabrera. Cabrera has not only taken advantage at the plate, but he's also been absolutely brilliant defensively. Melky is not just an upgrade in center field, he's night and day different from Damon.

    Plus, Joe has stated publicly that Melky's enthusiasm has sparked the team. (I know, you never believe in things like motivation, so maybe this argument will just be wrong to you.)

    In the last 11 games, the Yankees have beaten Toronto (1) Boston (2) Chicago (3) Pittsburgh (3)

    Sure, Pittsburgh is a lower tier team, and you can argue that Toronto and Chicago are losing momentum (even though they're both in the WC race as much as the Yankees,) but what about the Sox? Sure, this past couple weeks has been easier overall than the previous few weeks, but you win games, and you move ahead. Downgrading the Yankees performance by saying they are just beating bad teams isn't fair.
     
  17. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    OK, but Damon's had a pretty miserable June since being moved into that DH slot. So while he may be happier he's still OPS'ing 100 points lower then he did in May playing the OF. Giambi wasn't really hitting and Melky has been hot so in the short term you might get a boost from having him in the lineup but if you think over the course of the season having Melky in the lineup is better then having Giambi I don't know what to tell you.

    It's not that I don't "believe" in things like motivation it's just that they're no substitute for talent. From a Mets fans perspective look what happened with Endy when he got run out there every day. From what I've seen of Melky he's the same type of 4th OFer.

    I wasn't trying to downgrade the Yankees performance either. As a more complete answer, the Yankees had alot of guys performing well under their career averages early in the year, it was only a matter of time before some of them got hot. The Red Sox aside I think the fact that the Yankees have been playing some less then stellar teams lately helped this process along, not the fact that Giambi left the lineup.
     
  18. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    I'm looking at the complete picture. It's probably harder to see since you don't watch them every day.

    The Yankees are a better team without Giambi, and with Melky. I'll sacrifice Giambi's 30HRs with no one on for Melky's and Damon's baserunning. (And yes, I'm purposely exaggerating. :wink:)

    And regardless of what the stats say, Damon has been significantly better at the plate and on the basepath. He's getting the first inning started practically every game. When your leadoff hitter is getting a single to start the first, and you turn it into a 3 run inning, it almost doesn't matter what he does the rest of the game.

    Of course the lineup was going to come around at some point. However, they all came around at once. Interestingly, it was when Giambi went out, Abreu was moved back to 3rd, Posada and Matsui, and by extension Cano were all moved up in the order, and Melky's speed and energy were inserted at the bottom.

    Sure, heart doesn't trump talent. However, there is no one on this team that isn't talented. Your comparison of Cabrera to Endy is something I can't comment on. I don't watch the Mets, so I don't know how he plays. However, I can say that when Melky plays regularly, he plays well. He has extremely few mental lapses in the field, and he's an average hitter. If he hits .270-.280, I'm happy, as long as his fielding continues the way it has the past 2 years.

    You'd be hard-pressed to find any Yankees fans that understand the game who think the team is not better off without Giambi in the lineup.
     
  19. Royal Tee

    Royal Tee Girls juss wanna have fun
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    I'd agree but this is what Pisses me off about Joe.
    If you're gonna have a Baserunning lineup then you gotta run!
    Play small ball especially @ the bottom of the lineup.

    Joe has all but abandoned that until Rocket pitched then all of a sudden he was trying to produce runs for him.

    I was glad we did, but he pisses me off w/ BS like that.
     
  20. JoeJet

    JoeJet Banned

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    Difficult to understand I guess unless you watch the Yankees play all their games, BUT that pretty much has been the Yankee fan commentary on radio and TV since Giambi went down and the Yankees started winning, ie, Giambi clogs up the middle of the batting order, Damon stays more rested and productive as a DH and Melky is a better CF than Damon. The Yankees can first and third you to death now and I am not looking forward too much to this weekend series considering the Yankees and Mets are going in opposite directions.
     

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