Another Mahomes take

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    I don't think the Jets were ignorant of Mahomes talent or deficient in scouting. I think the Jets made the decision to pass on Mahomes because at the time they did not want to develop a young QB.

    I don't think Todd Bowles was/is a good head football coach.

    I think the Johnson's and Maccagnan had a different opinion. Bowles was a defensive coach not suited to develop Darnold. We talk about Maccagnan but Bowles as HC must take a sliver of responsibility for Hackenberg being that bad. Coaching does play a role in developing a QB and he also got little out of Petty. I saw Bowles with 3 young QBs and the first two did not look coached well. Todd Bowles was not capable of getting the best out of a young QB.

    Remember Plan A was to sign Kirk Cousins so we know both Bowles and Maccagnan did not want to go the route of developing a QB. When you look at the roster at the time it was clear they were not a contender yet they took a win now mode offering Cousins more than 90 million guaranteed- he took less to sign with the Vikings. The approach taken with Cousins shows the team was committed to Bowles as late as January 2018 and truly did not want to develop a QB.

    When the Jets had no choice they decided to draft a QB, yet in a move that made no sense they retained Todd Bowles. When you look at Bowles prior 3 seasons he did nothing to warrant keeping his job. Add in it was evident it was now a passing league and teams were all hiring offensive minded coaches. The next year Bowles went 4-12 and was finally fired. IMO I think if he went 6-10, 7-9, they would have kept him. I read Maccagnan and Bowles didn't like each other but when you look at the decisions made it looks like they treated him like Vince Lombardi.

    I think a big reason why the Jets passed on Mahomes was a misguided commitment to Todd Bowles. Does anyone think Mahomes would have near the success that he has if he were developed by Todd Bowles instead of Andy Reid?

    I think the real answer on Mahomes is not that the Jets did not see his talent or didn't do their due diligence. I think the team was strangely really committed to Todd Bowles and he did not want to draft and develop a young QB. This truly falls on the Johnsons, as remember the setup- the coach and GM report to ownership. Mahomes is not a Jet not because of bad drafting but because the Johnsons were incredibly committed to Todd Bowles- a coach who could not develop a player like Mahomes.
     
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  2. jets69

    jets69 Well-Known Member

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    Oh brilliant another we should've drafted Maholmes thread, no one else figured that out.
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Ever hear of "Occam's Razor"? It says that when there are multiple possible answers to a problem, usually it's the simplest one that's correct.

    The simplest reason that Macc passed on Mahomes is that he didn't know talent, and specifically, didn't know anything about QBs. Moreover, he didn't have plan on how to build a team.

    And the really bad news is that the owners gave him an extension after he shit the bed with that disastrous miss, and the same owners still own the team!
     
  4. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Todd Bowles is saddened by this thread.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I thought that was his happy face.
     
  6. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Mahomes may have been a talent anywhere he went. But to think he'd be anywhere near the player he is today in a Jets uniform is a little misguided. In all honesty, Darnold was probably a better prospect and definitely more highly regarded out of college than Mahomes was.

    People tend to look at what the players doing now and forget that Mahomes was a fringe first round draft pick and really received a second round grade across the entire football world. He was a big system player in a system that really up until right around now, has never produced a good quarterback. For every Patrick Mahomes there are 20 Brandon Weeden's and Graham Harrell's.

    He was thought to jump into the first round because of the premium put on quarterbacks.

    I think skipping out on Watson and McCaffrey were the bigger misses. As good as Adams is, this team was starved for offensive playmakers not two safeties.

    My personal opinion is that Mahomes probably looks similar to how Darnold has looked his first two years. Don't forget that Mahomes got the redshirt year that really no first round drafted quarterbacks are allowed to get anymore. And he gets to sit in the offensive meeting rooms with a coach that has three losing seasons in 21 years and gave Donovan McNabb a shitty argument in the Hall of Fame discussion.

    Think back to Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye and don't forget that just a year earlier we took an undersized hybrid linebacker in Darron Lee. He was billed as the do it all hybrid player that would send this defense over the top. A year later, enter a more athletic and highly touted prospect in Jamal Adams, but they fit a similar role. We also decided to move on from DeMario Davis to take Lee, who since has become an All-Pro.

    What a mess.
     
    #6 Jonathan_Vilma, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  7. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    I think they had no intention of drafting a QB that year with just having drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd rd the year prior. They were focused on the next QB class that was already hailed as an all time great class and gave themselves another season to see what they had in Hackenberg.

    If they knew that Hack would completely shit the bed in TC and preseason they might’ve given a more serious look at Mahomes and/or Watson.
     
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  8. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    The real conversation should be about how this team should've drafted Watson, but didn't because Mac was deadset on Hackenberg.

    If they took Watson, Bowles would still be the HC and Mac would still be GM. He would've saved both their jobs.
     
  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    I was wrong about Watson. I thought he benefitted from insane talent they had at WR at Clemson. He's good, Maccagnan would still be here if he drafted Watson
     
  10. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    From what Iam reading, things had to happen the way they did since if acquired talent like Mahomes or Watson the same crappy Coach and GM would be running things on life support from Star players

    So now that Gates threw MAC to the curb at least we get to witness Joe Douglas transform the Roster and help out our FQB, Greg Williams run the D and Adam Gase..uh .uh..I dunno yet

    We can always find his replacement
     
  11. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    I was dead wrong too, I didn’t want him or Mahomes.

    Shows you what I know
     
  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    There is a similar player to Mahomes named Jordan Love who plays for Utah State. Big kid, who might have a stronger arm than Mahomes. He lit it up last year and regressed this year. I'd imagine he gets overdrafted this year, but might be a good red shirt QB for the Saints, Pats, Steelers, etc.
     
  13. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    that would hold much more weight if he didn't choose a guy who in 3 years, made the all rookie team, has 2 pro bowls, a 2nd team AP and a 1st team AP.
     
  14. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't just Mahomes's talent but his demeanor and ability to get better. Does Love have that?
     
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  15. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    That's true for much of the 2018 draft class I think.

    I remember hearing so much about the (at the time) upcoming draft class of 2018, once in a generation, golden. Many wanted the Jets to wait for 2018.

    To me this Mahomes second guess is revisionist history, 20-20 hindsight.

    And really who can say right now with 100% certainty that Darnold will not end up having a better career than Mahomes?
     
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  16. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me that we need a QB#2...

    Either a young stud that will push Sam...or a vet that will school him.

    Both need to be able to step in and play when Sam inevitably gets another STD.
     
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  17. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what sort of professional he'll turn into. But I don't know that many of us really know that about college athletes outside of some light local reporting in the college town of reporters that are fans. And then of course combine scouting reports after the interview process and what not.

    But teams also don't show their cards completely in that sense either.
     
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  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Nice stats, and would be more meaningful if they didn't pale in comparison to a guy who was 1st Team All Pro 2018 and 2019, NFL Player of the Year, 2018 NFL MVP, 2018 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year, set the season record for TDs, and led his team to the playoffs (and maybe to a Lombardi Trophy).
     
  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This is actually true revisionist history since I and some others actually DID predict Mahomes's success. Just because you and many didn't doesn't change the fact that the guy was a superior QB talent.
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully, but strongly disagree. There's no doubt that Sam was the higher rated player of the two, but I think that was a mistake. I think people discounted Mahomes simply because of where he played and the system in which he played. Mahomes didn't bear any resemblance whatsoever to Graham Harrel or any of the other rag-arm QBs that played at Texas Tech or in other Air Raid system. You know as well as I that fans often don't think for themselves. They dismiss players because of the system they played in or the school where they played or the level of competition where they played. IMO one has to look at each player and situation individually.

    IMO the only reason that Mahomes wouldn't have succeeded in the NFL was that he was too stupid to learn a pro offense or couldn't read NFL Ds. He has every physical tool, great character and a strong work ethic.I can't imagine anyone that knows anything about football could have looked at video of Mahomes play in college and said that he was not a great QB prospect and a definite top 10 pick.
     
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