After the 2000 season as Parcells was walking away from the Jets Al Groh thought he would return as the head coach the following season. He related a conversation that he had with Parcells in late December that went something like this: Groh: So what do I need to change on this team to make it fundamentally better next season? Parcells: I don't think you're going to get that opportunity. Groh: I'm going to get fired? Parcells: You just coached a team to 3 straight losses and missed the playoffs. It would be better if you resigned and avoided the issues that creates. If you doubt the scenario, read the article. UVA wouldn't have gotten Groh if the Jets won the last game against the Ravens and made the playoffs. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...=Top/Reference/Times Topics/People/G/Groh, Al
That team was a comfortable veteran team that purposely tanked on Groh. Plain and simple. Parcells might have been tough, but he lavished these guys with absurd contracts and had the credibility that comes with legend. As soon as Groh got in there these guys at Club Vet couldn't handle it and they mutinied. That Jets-Baltimore game was a microcosm of Vinny Testaverde's mediocre career. The Jets marched up and down the field on Baltimore with freaking Dedric Ward and Wayne Chrebet. They put up over 500 yards of total offense in that game. To give you an idea of what they were working with, the leading receiver that year was Richie Anderson, followed by Curtis Martin. Testaverde had a QB rating of 69....69! In any event, he threw a ton of picks and tossed the game, and the season,away. Hall had a terrible year kicking and was replaced by Conway. I don't know what the record is for most teams that have a kicker below 70 percent and a starting qb below 70 rating, but I'm sure that 9-7 is an anomaly for such a unit. I thought it was a mistake when Groh got fired, but I think his gruff style is a bit more suited for the college game. -X-
He actually resigned right after the conversation with Parcells. UVA had been sniffing around him and he grabbed the offer when he realized that taking a team to 9-7 with a QB having an off season and no legitimate #1 receiver wasn't going to keep him around. I think he'd have been a good coach with the Jets if he stayed. He did have real issues due to his hard practices and the demands he made on the players. Vinny called him out in the media about game 14, claiming the Jets were tired from all of the extra work. Groh replied (through the media) that he was tired too, but the work was going to keep coming until the Jets got to their goal. I just look at all of that and I think that Mangini is going to see MUCH worse, both from the media and the players, before this is all over.
For some reason I really liked Groh alot...he was a motivator in that 2000 season. We came back in so many games...he got the best out of his players. I will never forget the sound byte during the Monday Night Miracle...Groh walked over to the bench where Cox was and said to him, "Ya know, I talked to a guy named Brian Cox before the game and he told me he was going to show up...I still haven't seen him." Wow...talk about challenging a player! I love that kind of approach and I think it was a big mistake to toss Groh the way we did.
That is total Hogwash. The oreason Groh wouldnt have gone to UVA if they made the playoffs is because the University wouldnt have waited and wouldl have figured no way he would leave. Absolutley - NO WAY Groh would have been fired -- and that link you posted says nothing of the sort.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09162007/sports/qb_ratings__throw_em_out.htm?page=0 Read this a while back. Vinny's not Joe Montana, but don't bring up his quarterback rating as a negative. He was a immobile, turnover happy guy who had two good years in a painfully long career. Still loved him...but hated him in the same.
I missed Groh, because he was a Parcells guy with a similar system. I never warmed up to Herman Edwards and his west coast offense, because it just seemed too different from what I had been used to. I was elated to see Mangini hired, because, as a Parcells disciple, he brings that back to the Jets. Now, we need a hard-nosed Parcells defense going. We need guys that will knock the other teams QBs on their asses.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/30/sports/main260536.shtml?source=search_story "Groh's enthusiasm for his job with the Jets didn't appear to wane even with the late-season collapse. Two days after a loss at Baltimore eliminated them from the playoff race, Groh said he already was back at work planning for the 2001 season." http://www.nhregister.com/site/index.cfm?BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517515&newsid=1229302&rfi=8 "The Jets completed their season with a 34-20 defeat at Baltimore. Quarterback Vinny Testaverde threw three interceptions and lost two fumbles in that game. But two days after the final loss, Groh announced that Testaverde, the hero of the 1998 run to the AFC title game under Parcells, would go into summer training camp as the starter." http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...934A15751C1A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2 Read the whole thing here. Al Groh on December 27th was the Jet's head coach for 2001, based on all of his pronouncements at the season ending press conference, and on December 30th he resigned. BTW, Groh interviewed for the first time with UVA on Friday, December 29th and then resigned on Saturday, December 30th. That makes the conversation with Parcells likely to have occurred on Thursday December 28th. On Wednesday December 27th he gave his final presser as Jet's coach and it was all about who he had just re-signed (Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones), who the starting QB would be going into camp (Vinny) and what positions the Jets would be looking at options for (WR primarily) the following season.
Parcells turned on one of "his guys" in one season? I highly doubt it... Groh wanted that VA job period... I remember the day it was announced we were in the middle of a blizzard... sucked cuz I really liked the guy and would have loved to see what he could have done with a few more seasons
Groh wanted to take the Jets to the playoffs. He wanted to do this with Parcells staying as director of football operations. It never occurred to him until the moment of the conversation that Parcells might be thinking about leaving football and that the new regime coming in would likely fire him and hire their own coach if that occurred.
When Groh left, he left the Jets with a difficult situation. I don't think they had any thought of firing him, with or without Parcells. And Groh definitely had a fire inside of him. I wish Mangini would start to look on the sidelines like when he got PO'd at his press conference. I think everybody would feed off of that. Maybe we can hire Earl Weaver to give him some lessons in anger dismanagement.
He left the Jets with a difficult situation but he cleared the decks for Parcells "retirement." He'd have been gone after Parcells left. The vets were grumbling and the new GM would have wanted a fresh start. What's amazing to me is that he was so highly regarded that his alma mater took him on 48 hours notice. That says a lot about his personality and skills.
Groh was NOT getting fired and where was that quote from the article? of course groh wouldn't have left if the jets beat Baltimore b/c they would have been playing in the playoffs ad UVa was ready to move forward quickly in their search for a new HC. groh was not going to get fired.
Parcells didn't even want to be w/ the jets in '00, he knew he wasn't long for the job. You liked groh who did a poor job in his 1 season, hate herm who made te playoffs 3 of 5 years(and only missed in seasons b/c of injury problems) and now you are happy w/ EM even though we are awful even though we are healthy? Makes sense. The problem was the team was never prepared to play to start games. we fell begind early in so many games and it caught up w/ us late in the year. grh did a poor job in his lone season w/ us.
Same here... I think one simple subtraction (Mawae) and he could have gotten a firmer hold on the locker room, and done something with this team... I still think he's an excellent football coach, and, until late, the players made a lot out of very little for him
i would have liked to see groh enjoy the fruits of the 2000 draft ripen..... he was kind of a cooky guy with the players. some of those motivation bytes do not go over well with the vets. and its only natural that the vets of 5 years or so just do not want to get their butts kicked in TC and during the week. IMO - if they show up and play on sunday they need to produce. if they produce then how can you justify roasting them during the week like a rookie. jil
Good points Jil, A guy like Groh probably could have gotten a lot out of some of the lazier guys, like Abraham. Had Johnny Abe not gotten hurt, he probably would have had a bit more of an impact that year. Definitely a bit cooky... -X-
Have you watched him at UVa? every year he gets top talent and every year they unerachieve. He was extreme;y lucky he won 9 games w/ us b/c Vinny bailed him out w/ so many ridiculous comebacks. groh did a poor job his 1 year here and has done a poor job at UVa, thankfully Herm took over here.
Vinny was cleaning up his own messes. He pulled us out of games, but 21 TD's and 25 Interceptions says it all. That season was vintage Testaverde, full of inexplicable picks when he was throwing the ball away over the middle. Herm was good because he let the players play, and when you have the appropriate talent that works...for a while. By the time he left, this team was in full blown mutiny. The guy was a clown act. I think it's utterly preposterous to think that a guy who couldn't grasp clock management(a 12 year old with a Madden addiction can do that) and had a ready made excuse for anything would have ever achieved better than the typical Herm season, good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to outcoach and gameplan anyone in the league. You can only win by "firing guys up" so much, and then it gets old when you don't have a plan. -X-
