A realistic look at finances available for FA?

Discussion in 'Draft' started by NCJetsfan, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    To begin with, let me say that I am no cap or contract guru. I can't say with any great assurance if the dollar amounts I use are too low or may be too high in some instances. Some of you can probably speak to that better than I, but I don't think I'm way off. I can't guess at signing bonuses or other types of bonuses, but I know that they can raise or lower the cap hit for any one year, and some $s can be pushed into future years. With our own FAs I tried to give reasonable raises, and to other team's FAs was more generous, but may not have been generous enough. Everything depends upon their agents, and how many other teams covet those FAs.

    According to Over the Cap.com, the Jets have $48,760,074 in cap space. By cutting Johnson, Harvin, Babin and Cumberland, the Jets would have an additional $17,300,000 in cap space, for a total of $66,060,074. for those who want to keep Harvin, I'll be curious to see if you still want that after you see the numbers in black and white in front of you.

    Cuts
    Chris Johnson – savings $3,500,000
    Percy Harvin savings $10,500,000
    Justin Babin savings $1,500,000
    Jeff Cumberland savings $1,900,000

    Based on the figures I've seen, the Jets will need $7 million to sign their draft picks. I figure that they may want to save $5-$10 million in cap space for any TC cuts or injuries during the season. For argument's sake, let's say that leaves the Jets with $49,160,074 to sign FAs.

    IMO the #1 priority is re-signing/extending Mo. He is our best player and I think Mac needs to send a strong, positive message to the team that the franchise appreciates and respects its own.

    Extension
    Mo Wilkinson - Five years $55.5 million, $11.1 million per year

    That takes the amount they have to spend on FAs to $38,060,074

    I think it important that the Jets maintain the DL as the team strength if possible, so ideally, Harrison, Ellis & Douzable be re-signed. It will be expensive, however, and could prevent their addressing other needs this year.

    Purdum has been an excellent LS, so unless Dalton Freeman can demonstrate that he can take over the LS duties and handle it as flawlessly as Purdum, then Purdum should probably stay. Powell is a nice back, but expendable. The same goes for Jarrett, Ijalana, Salas and Bellore. Bellore is one of their better STers, so he should stick. None of the contracts for the last 5 should be guaranteed. If they find a FA, player in the draft or a UDFA who can unseat them, fine, and that could give them a little more wiggle room. They could boost the amount of money available by $3- $4 million either by letting Snacks or Ellis walk or signing him to a tender and not matching any offers that Snacks receives. Another option would be pushing some of the money into future years when the cap is bigger.

    Re-Sign Jets FAs
    Damon "Snacks" Harrison - 4 years $16 million - $4 million per year
    Kenrick Ellis - 4 years $10.25 million - $2.56 million per year
    Leger Douzable - 2 years $3 million - $1.5 million per year
    Tanner Purdum - 2 years $2 million - $1 million per year
    Bilal Powell - 2 years $3.75 million - $1.87 million per year
    Jaiquawn Jarrett - 2 years $1.5 million - $750k per year
    Ben Ijalana - 2 years $2.5 million - $1.25 million per year
    Greg Salas - 2 years $1.5 million - $750k per year
    Nick Bellore - 2 years $3.75 million - $1.87 million per year

    Total - $15,550,000

    That would bring the amount the Jets have to spend solely on FAs down to $22,510,074. For those of you who want to sign Revis for close to $20 million per season, Iupati for $8 million per season, or Worilds for $11-$12 million per season, or Kareem Jackson for $7-9 million per season, Maclin, Julius Thomas or Demaryius Thomas for probably $12-$15 million per season, that should show you how unrealistic your desires are. That would limit their abilities to address many other needs.

    Mac, like most GMs, seeks to build the team primarily through the draft, but also supplement with FA. Many of these GMs seek to add cheaper second tier FAs to increase/improve competition and as insurance so they aren't forced to have to draft a player at a position of need in the draft. One possibility is that he would seek to sign a number of these 2nd tier FAs. He's on record at the Combine, however as saying that the team needs 2 CBs. If they do that, that could eat up $12-$15 million of the roughly $22.4 million left and still have a ton of holes. He has said that they will be active in FA this year, so I am curious and anxious to see what that means.

    Following is one possibility where a number of positions would be addressed. I believe that all of the players are 25-26. Aside from Matt Moore, they all were starters last season. Some other options if you don't like some of these players would be Clint Boling or James Carpenter (OGs), Louis Delmas or Kendrick Lewis (FSs), Brooks Reed (OLB), and that could move the amount up or down. You may know some other players at these positions who are FAs that you like better. If the numbers are anywhere near accurate, they could sign the following players for $22,250,000

    Orlando Franklin (OG) – currently making $1,089,000, sign him for 4 years $17-18 million $4.5 million
    Matt Moore (QB) – currently making, sign him for two years $10.5 million - $5.25 million
    Rahim Moore (FS) – currently making, $1,112,032, sign him for four years for $14 million - $3.25 million
    Sam Acho (OLB) – currently making $628,607, sign him for five years for $7.5 million, $1.5 million
    Jordan Cameron (TE) – currently making $629,350, sign him for 4 years for $6 million, $1.5 million
    Antonio Cromartie (CB) – currently making, sign him for 2 years for $10 million - $5 million
    Mason Foster (ILB) – currently making $696,093, sign him for 2 years for $2.5 million, $1.25 million

    IMO that would be a pretty great FA period. They would upgrade one of their starting OG spots, bring in a vet QB to push Geno or more likely, start, have a real FS, replace/upgrade Cumberland's spot, add a young OLB who knows Bowles' system, and replace Harris, who is likely to sign with Buffalo. The only position that they wouldn't be able to address would be WR, but they wouldn't have to draft a WR since they have some young WRs who never got to play much last season. I hope that they will draft a WR, but they wouldn't be forced to. Personally, I'd much rather the Jets do something like this and address many positions rather than spending 2/3 of their available FA $s on signing two CBs and having little left to address other positions, even if it means Bowles has to change his approach and not blitz so much for a few years. I think upgrading multiple positions on both offense and defense, getting younger and faster would benefit the team much more than signing two CBs or two high-priced players between the WR, OLB and CB positions.

    This would leave them free to go BAP/BPA in the draft, and wouldn't force them to draft any position out of need, except possibly WR.

    For the draft, there are quite a few players I like and I think would help the team. I think there are only three imperatives entering the draft. One, if either Winston or Mariota drops to them and the Jets view him as a potential franchise QB, they take him; two, if at all possible, find Brick's replacement at LT for next season*; and three, since this draft is deep and strong at OLB and WR get at least one prospect between those two positions, and preferably one of each. That doesn't mean that they should reach for a player or forget taking the BPA/BAP. Mac can seek to trade down, garner an additional pick or picks, get value, and draft players where they are rated.

    *Bricks' play has been steadily declining and I don't think they should pay him over $14 million next season for his level of play, and if they should be so fortunate as to get Mariota or Winston in the draft, I don't want Brick protecting his blind side.
     
  2. RichardCaster

    RichardCaster Active Member

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    This is unreadable. I stopped at Wilk contract. The only part that counts against cap is the 1st yr salary plus any bonus prorated over life of contract. Not the way you did it. No how the cap and NFL salaries work before you make a long stupid post like you are some expert
     
  3. NYJalltheway

    NYJalltheway Well-Known Member

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    Who is Justin Babin?
     
  4. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    Suggest you read it properly then. A 5 year, $55.5m deal averages at $11.1m per annum, which is what he took off this year's cap. Of course, if you mess around with annual base salary then it won't be a straight average, but no point in doing that for a mock.

    I think Mo's deal might be a touch more than that but I like the overall approach. A lot of mid-level FA contributors makes far more sense to me than 1 or 2 big names.
     
  5. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going in to your players.
    But I'll make a couple notes on other things.
    1) the Cap, you can plug the numbers in here http://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-jets and it will track your spending and cap implicatations, not just for this season but for future seasons as well. The nice thing about this calculator is if you cut a player it counts the dead money against your cap but increases the cap by any saved money and if you enter the full contract of your signings and extensions it will show you your cap implications for 2015 and all future years in which you have players under contract. It also allows you to place tenders are players that are eligable for tenders and to extend and renegotiate contracts. It's a very useful tool for estimating cap space and the implications of various moves.

    2) player salaries are not dictated in free agency by what they made last year but what the market will pay them. Most of your FA contracts are way under value, espeically Moore, Foster and probably Franklin. Cromarties might be slightly under value based on how well he played last year and the demand for CB's, someone will overpay and force the price up. Demand and perceived skill sets the market and not what the player made the previous season.
     
  6. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to break this down a little more on why I think the contracts being offered are 'light' on money.
    Orlando Franklin- He's going to cost more than 4.5 Million in FA. He was one of the better pass protecting guards in the NFL last year. If you google Franklin and look at the free agency links you quickly get a picture of how many teams, including of course the Bronco's, are interested in Franklin. A Patriots site that does an excellent job at looking at potential free agents for the Patriots and breaks down the pro's and con's and why it might work and why it might not, indicates that they expect Franklin to make between 7-9 million per year. http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...5/02/18/free-agent-snapshot-orlando-franklin/
    if you look at what the top tier of guards make in the NFL the top 10 salaries range in 2015 from 6.5M to 11M in terms of cap hit for 2015. Judging by the number of teams looking at Franklin in FA and the salaries of the top end guards he'll probably wind up at around 8M per year average or a little higher, depending on how high at least two teams interest runs.

    Matt Moore is probably pretty much on target at 5.25, maybe a little too high but reasonable given the QB market.

    Rahim Moore is probably pretty close, I've changed my view on this after more research, a good range for him is probably 3-5 million.

    Reports on Mason foster indicate he'll make between 3-4 million in the free agency market.

    Cameron is going to get a lot more than 1.5M, Reports are the Cleveland is considering a franchise tag on him. He's probably going to get between 4-5M per year, without the injury it'd probably be higher.
     
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  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The Jets would already have locked up Wilkinson if they could get it done for $11M a year.
     
  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    As you point out FA's don't sign for the average contract, they set the high end of the range from which the average contract is derived.

    Any vet FA in demand is going to get 50-100% more than the average for a starter at his position. If he doesn't get that then the NFL is either colluding for a season (CB's in 2013) or his agents blow chunks.
     
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  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I know about the calculator, but imo it only helps over a period of multiple seasons, not just one, and when you're bringing in multiple FAs.

    I disagree on your second point to some extent. Yes, I know demand and the market can drive prices up, sometimes astronomically, but not always, and I think with younger, lesser-known players, their deals are closer to what they made the previous season. As I said, however, I'm no cap or financial guru. The purpose of my post was twofold: one, to demonstrate that the Jets could address multiple positions; and two, to show those who want the Jets to sign a Revis, Worilds, Iupati, Demaryius Thomas, or Julius Thomas, who ridiculous and impractical that is. The Jets don't have as much cap space to sign FAs as most think. I know that I was surprised how quickly the $66 million in cap space after my cuts was eaten up.
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry your reading comprehension and attention span are so bad. You're misreading the way I did it. I said I didn't use any bonuses in my figures. It was all straight salary, and I did only count the first year salary against this year's cap. I know that often times salaries are staggered, but there's no way to figure that and it would have made it too complex. My first comments were that I am NOT a cap guru or financial expert and don't claim to be. It was just an example, an intended to stimulate discussion. I expected at least one poster to be an obnoxious, ignorant ass wipe. Congratulations, you, my friend, are that ass wipe, and the only one who is stupid.
     
    #10 NCJetsfan, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions. As I said, I'm no cap or contract guru, and as I've said in other threads, I don't follow other teams in the NFL or their players that closely. I did google Franklin, but didn't see the sites you mentioned that tell which teams are interested in him, etc. I didn't realize that Franklin was that elite of an OG. You're probably right then, and that's Iupati range, so I would probably opt for either Boling or Carpenter instead, if they were cheaper.

    I discounted Cameron because of his injury. I guess I discounted him too much.

    At any rate, I think my initial purposes for creating the thread still stand. The Jets can address multiple positions if they choose, and they're not going to be able to sign a bunch of big name, top-dollar FAs. They can sign one, maybe two, but that will limit what else they can do.
     
    1968jetsfan likes this.
  12. RichardCaster

    RichardCaster Active Member

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  13. RichardCaster

    RichardCaster Active Member

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    You fully explained why you are wasting your/our time. You have no comprehension of salary cap etc.
    So your #s mean nothing and are worthless
     
  14. RichardCaster

    RichardCaster Active Member

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    "NOT a cap guru"
    But I will talk about the cap???
     
  15. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    This thread is a huge cluster fuck. Jesus
     
  16. BleedGreen4ever

    BleedGreen4ever Active Member

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    I highly doubt we resign so many backup Dline man for that kinda of money. Backups and rotational players are available for much less.
     
  17. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    There's a few players I wouldn't resign so IMO I'll have more cap. But those wanting DT or Revis ... Forget about it, wont happen. I'd rather not spend every penny available
     
  18. jdon

    jdon Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading in he book about the Jets that there were concerns about Wilk's motor when they planned their draft. And I have seen him taking plays off. I have also seem him throwing guys around like sacks of wheat. I am never sure how hard he is going. The good outweighs the bad. But 11 mill seems high to me.
     
  19. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    One problem with the OP is that we get charged for the top 53 (54?) players on our roster or the minimum salary if we do not have that many players.

    Therefore, resigning one of our free agents for $1.5 mil (let's say Douzable) does not cost that much against the cap as it bumps a minimum slot of $550k off of the top 53 meaning that Douzable costs us $950k above the minimum.

    So the $15.5 mil to resign our guys (not all should be resigned IMHO) is reduced by the 9 x $550k or $4.95 mil already included in the initial available cap calculation for a net increase of $11.05 mil meaning that the other $4.95 mil is still available to spend on other players.
     
  20. CleveSteve

    CleveSteve Active Member

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    Only the top 51 contracts a team has count against the cap. I'm not sure why, I think it has to do with adding street free agents during the season, but yeah.

    Also, vets making the minimum salary have a maxxed out cap hit, can't remember if it is the same number as a rookie salary or 3rd year salary in order to encourage not cutting older role players for cap reasons.
     

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