#4 PICK

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Jojo, Mar 25, 2022.

  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I think you got confused. I kept 10 d-lineman and 9 o-lineman so maybe thats where the 10 came from?
    I could list him at CB but we all know he isn't taking snaps there. I listed out the roster more like a depth chart then a roster list so people could see the projected starters so I listed hardee as a gunner.
    thats fine if you think we won't take the people I listed, anything can happen but you can almost guarentee a WR, EDGE, and DT for sure. a 2nd DT is very likely later on as well. JD and saleh have both made it clear where priorities are. personally I'd like a LBer and maybe a TE but jets don't seem to think LBer is a need and they won't take a TE unless the value is really good.


    you have to remember there are fan needs and GM needs. according to JD the only needs are d-line and WR. he used free agency to give him flexability in the draft. we don't need a CB, OG, or TE anymore. they probably don't feel RB is a need either. they'll use the top picks for playmakers then the later picks to fill out the short list of needs and then the really late picks to try and find gems.

    as far as thomas goes, he isn't guaranteed a roster spot, neither is shepard. they are insurance. saleh and JD want 8 lineman to rotate. they never play any lineman over 70% of the snaps. they want to rotate them and keep them fresh. we don't need to cut anyone right now but rankins could be cut during the roster cut down. they want competition for everyone and for players to earn their spots


    it's the 5th round. it's where you take chances. he's the best prospect available at that time. parham will be gone as will strange


    we'll keep 4 for sure. it's possible we cut wesco if we get another TE. i'd love dulcich he's my TE2 behind mcbride but I think he'll be gone before we pick in the 4th. TE is possible late as well if JD feels the value is there
     
  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    Thats fair but it's a forum. i mean you quoted the whole text wrong but I can still figure it out lol. it's not a big deal though.


    and sometimes people list the long snapper as an o-lineman but they won't take snaps there. The idea was to list a depth chart not just a roster. hardee won't take snaps at CB. the other gunner will be someone who has the chance to take snaps at their position. If you don't want to list someone who is a designated gunner as a gunner then why list a long snapper? doesn't make sense just list them as a C

    of course there are smoke screens but even pre draft process both him and saleh felt the LBers were good. and they are high on sherwood and have been since last camp. They said they felt the run game issues were due to the d-line not the LBers. it's why i really feel DT is a top priority and 2 are possible. it's also not just baout what they say. we've had 2 years of JD at GM and saleh has been a defensive coach for a while with draft influence on the niners. we know how they operate and think. the trenches are important to them over anything but QB then comes playmakers. JD even said his philosophy is blue chip and playmakers in the 1st then round out needs and to use free agency so you don't have big holes to address. thats why we got tomlinson and reed and uzomah and conklin. we don't have major holes at any starting positions except 1tech DT. so he'll play a very BPA in the 1st.



    it's possible for sure. but both will be in camp to earn the spot. you have Q, thomas, and rankins all fighting for the same spot basically and the only 1 tech we have is shepard who is a big downgrade from foley. I fully expect a 1 tech DT in the 1st 4 picks. I don't think we keep both rankins and thomas though

    possibly but the o-line is set for a few years. I could see us taking one at 69 but usually you look at the 3rd for a starter but for us we don't really have a slot needed for that as it stands so 3rd could simply be a BPA type of pick form someone who fell out of the 2nd

    most college TEs are 1 dimensional because they focus on the one thing. rarely do you see a TE come out of college known for blocking and receiving. they just don't have the time with players to develop them.
     
  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    If we don't have any glaring holes except 1 tech DT, then why was JD trying so hard to trade for a WR? We do have glaring holes at WR and Edge. To say that we don't is ridiculous imo. Lawson isn't even a sure thing to come back from ACL and be anywhere near the player he was last spring. Huff and Martin don't mean there's not a hole at Edg.e

    I disagree that the OL is set for a few years. McGovern's contract expires at the end of the upcoming season. We need a C. They could re-sign McGovern, but word was the Jets were looking to upgrade the C position. That could have been a smokescreen as well, but perhaps not. They could save a nice chunk of cap space if they replaced McGovern with Linderbaum (not that I'm advocating that they do that).

    If it's rare, then this is a remarkable TE draft because McBride, Ruckert, Otton and Woods can all do both receive and block. Since that's what the Jets want, that's all the more reason why they should take one in this draft as Wesco can't really do either, and Yeboah is pretty much just a receiver.
     
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  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    holes and upgrades are 2 different things. we have 2 at worst solid starters at edge already. we also have moore with WR1 potential and davis who is a solid 2. berrios isn't really a 3 but we could do worse. it's not a glaring hole at WR or edge it's a solid group in need of an upgrade.

    for the o-line those players can be extended. sure an upgrade is possible for the jets but not an immediate need. if mcgovern is the weak link on the o-line then we have a pretty damn good o-line because he's a borderline top 10 C.

    mcbride is close but ruckert's recieving is iffy on film, otten doens't do either well not sure why you even mention him. woods is a freak athlete but blocking wise and even as a polished receiver just no. he's a guy you take a flyer on in the mid rounds and hope he develops into a weapon but I doubt he'll ever be a good blocker. lest you forget wesco was a top tier blocking TE in college which is why we drafted him
     
  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Which goes to prove that when you start getting past the 2nd round the odds of a player becoming a top starter, let alone good, drop off considerably. Yes, it happen all the time, which is the "fool's gold" of collecting mid-late round picks, but very few GM and scouting departments get these picks right consistently.

    To confidently "fill holes" with quality, you need to be using 1st and 2nd round picks if you want the odds in your favor. Of course that's not always possible because teams don't often have 4 top 40 picks (or even 4 picks in the first two rounds), so you more often have to settle for just making progress each year. But Douglas has a rare opportunity to significantly re-make this roster and he needs to nail it.
     
  7. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    exactly also why bundling 35 and 69 for a 3rd 1st make sense
     
  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    We don't necessarily have 2 solid starters at Edge already. We're not sure how effective Lawson will be and Martin is not all that. He is insurance, and wasn't brought in to start.

    Ruckert's receiving is not iffy, he just didn't get a lot of opportunities in OSU's offense He is a natural hands catcher and looks smooth. IMO you are wrong about Otton. He is smooth, has good hands and is a pretty good blocker. I watched several of his games and I like him as a prospect. He's not a Pitts or Tony Gonzalez, but most TEs aren't. As long as he works hard and seeks to keep improving, he will be fine for a #2 or at worst, #3 TE. Following are what Lance Zierlein of NFL.com and thedraftnetwork.com have to say about him.

    "He has sudden, reliable hands, and is skilled and athletic enough to shine against man or zone coverages. As with all UW tight ends, Otton was expected to block for the run game and did so with adequate technique. He will need to bolster his play strength and aggression levels to better execute his blocking itinerary at the next level. He's an ascending combination tight end with starting talent. He should become a more productive pro than college player as a likely Day 2 selection."

    Strengths
    • Bends and turns to avoid redirections from defense.
    • Zips into patterns and is a threat underneath.
    • Smart route-runner with basketball athleticism for uncovering.
    • Changes speeds to keep coverage in defensive posture.
    • Sinks, stems and separates from coverage at the break point.
    • Can adjust and catch without breaking stride.
    • Quick to anchor, open and secure the catch window versus zone.
    • Enough talent to put coverage on notice on all three levels.
    • Twitchy hands to pluck, tuck and go.
    • Aggressive hand strikes into the point of attack while blocking.
    • Technique and background to become adequate NFL blocker.
    Weaknesses
    • Seems bothered by contact inside the route.
    • Could use additional play strength.
    • Urgent after the catch, but average yards-after-catch talent.
    • More willing than aggressive in taking on blocking duties.
    • Frequently out-muscled and loses his stalemate block.
    • Not enough core strength to sustain and seal defensive ends.
    • Average reliability when asked to make backside cut-offs on outside zone runs.

    ANALYST'S REPORTS
    Harris

    • Cade Otton is a sufficient-level athlete with regards to downfield speed and separation quickness as a route-runner. In the run game, he is a very good in-line blocker with good power at the point of attack. He has some nastiness and tenacity to him in the run game. In the passing game, he demonstrates the football IQ and versatility to align at Y, F, or H. He has a very good catch radius and strong hands to pluck the football. He lacks elite separation quickness at the top of the route but does a good job catching the football away from his frame. He is a mismatch up the seams against smaller linebackers and does outstanding work between the numbers.

      Ideal Role: Starting TE

    • Hands: He demonstrates good hands. He catches the ball away from his frame. He demonstrates a good catch radius and strong hands to pluck the football.

      Route Running: This particular area isn’t a strength of his. However, this isn’t a glaring concern, either. He is crafty enough to gain separation against man coverage. He also knows how to sit his route down in zone.

      Versatility: He is a versatile player who can align in multiple positions. He can flex out as an F, he can align in-line as a traditional Y, and he can also align in the backfield as an H.

      Competitive Toughness: He displays his competitive toughness as an in-line blocker. He is tough and physical at the point of attack. He works hard to secure the catch over the middle when contact is imminent.

      Ball Skills: He demonstrates good ball skills. He can track the ball in the air, especially the seam ball. He also demonstrates good hands to secure the catch.

      Blocking Skills: He displays good blocking skills, particularly in the run game when he is in-line. He uses his good length when he is engaged as a run blocker.

      Football IQ: He displays good Football IQ. He rarely runs into coverage underneath. He also does a good job of uncovering in scramble situations.

      RAC Ability: He has sufficient RAC ability. He’s not elusive in space, but shows some straight-line speed with the ball in his hands.

      Pass Protection: He is good as a pass protector, mainly due to his competitiveness, length, and toughness. He can handle edge rushers by himself and does a good job in max protect situations.

      Big Play: He is a threat when the ball is in the air due to his ability to come down with the ball in contested-catch situations. He doesn’t have blazing speed and isn’t overly elusive but can have a tremendous impact with the ball in the air.

      Prospect Comparison: Pat Freiermuth & Zack Ertz combo

      SCOUT GRADES

      TDN Consensus: 76.83/100 (Third Round Value)

      Crabbs Grade: 78.00/100

      Marino Grade: 76.50/100

      Harris Grade: 78.00/100

      Sanchez Grade: 75.00/100

      Weissman Grade: 78.50/100

      Parson Grade: 75.00/100
    Woods is raw, but he has the size, strength, and speed to be a very good TE.
     
  9. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    we have JFM and lawson projected as starters. same as last year at this time. it's a solid duo but we need a top edge guy for sure. but it's not a hole. it's not like martin and huff are our starters. I haven't heard anything negative about lawsons recovery so we will see but the jets know more then we do. we will address edge in the draft one way or another. it's a given.

    for the TEs we just signed 2 so it's not a hole. uzomah and conklin are a solid duo. i don't mind a flyer but don't want to use a premium pick on a TE even for mcbride who I like a lot. woods and otton would be late round flyers. i didn't like what I seen of otten on tape. wasn't a fan. don't think he translates to the NFL. he wasn't even successful in college even your own analys you posted thinks he'll be a better pro then a college guy. I like ruckert. I think he can devlop into a decent WR and he's a jets fan which is cool i'd take a 4th on him but I mostly see him as currently just a blocker who needs to develop. he has good hands but he's not gonna be much more then a dump off guy with limited at best YAC. I would use a 3rd on a guy like dulcich who can stretch the field and looks natural as hell on film as a reciever. or if somehow mcbride fell to 69 i'd jump on him.
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    As usual, we'll just have to agree to disagree because I see things entirely differently than you do. I don't think JFM will be starting at Edge unless Lawson isn't healthy or the rookie really looks bad. They're not going to take an Edge at #4 or #10 and then sit him on the bench or make a situational pass rusher out of him.

    I didn't say that TE was a hole. We do need depth after Uzomah and Conklin in case one of them gets injured so we don't have to abandon the 12 formation.

    I wouldn't take McBride before the 5th round. He's slow, short for a TE, and most of his catches in the NFL will be contested catches. I don't see the love for him at all. IMO Ruckert's a better prospect. In terms of receiving, Dulcich, Kolar and Lively are all better prospects than McBride.
     
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    McBride is short? He's 6'4, like an inch below ideal.

    Slow? He ran a 4.54 at his pro day, faster than Burks, at 260 lbs.

    He also had great production in college, improving every single year. He's no Kyle Pitts but I don't know how much more you could ask for in a TE prospect. I'm not saying he's worthy of going super high but he's absolutely worthy of going before the 5th round.
     
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  12. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I mean it's not me. it's saleh's system so disagree with him. he considers 6 d-lineman as starters and rotates them. in 2020 he had armstead and traded for dee ford and still drafted bosa 2nd overall and rotated them all to keep them fresh. lets say we have 60 defensive snaps, that means 120 edge snaps (since 2 edges) ideally rookie, JFM, and lawson would each see 40 of them. it keeps them with fresh legs for the 4 quarter. thats how he runs his system. mind you the better 2 or the hot hand may see a few more but he wants his guys with fresh legs late in the game and not sucking wind.

    do I agree with it? yes if you have the players for it, it makes sense. and it's proven to work, but you aren't disagreeing with me here, you are with the guy running our team so maybe tell saleh he's wrong?

    as far as TE i'd take one if value is there, but it's not urgent. we have 4 currently including wesco and yeboah. no team runs 12 personnel more then 30% so at best it's a minority. WR3 is more important. of course we have enough picks for both. we do need a RB. MLF likes to rotate them to keep them fresh as well. the niners ran 3 RBs pretty evenly when saleh and MLF were there and they had them. they'll want a 3rd RB over a 3rd TE

    as far as mcbride he's the closest thing to a complete TE the draft has seen. he's a natural catcher and runner and a solid blocker. he has potential to be a great all around TE while everyone else seems to lack in some area. rucker to me is just ok. i wouldn't mind him in the 4th but he has wesco 2.0 written all over him. he's awkard and not natural. I think people loved him because he's a jet fan.
     
  13. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    we live in a world where 4.56 is fast for a 230lb WR but 4.54 is slow for a 260lb TE lol
    it's just NC being NC, he loves a prospect and hypes them up way too much to the point where he winds up shitting on others to make a point and contradicting himself
     
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  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    In game film he looks both short and slow to me. He is not faster than Burks. You need to stop with that nonsense. In continuing to say that crap you make it clear that you never have watched any game film of Burks, just are spouting Combine 40 times.
     
  15. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Running is running. I'm not saying 40 times are exactly indicative of playing speed but there's just no world in which a guy who ran a 4.54 at 260 lbs is slow. For what it's worth I don't think McBride is actually faster than Burks, but it also makes 0 sense to call McBride slow.

    Why are you judging his height based off game film instead of the actual precise measurements of his height taken at the combine? It doesn't matter how short you think he looks on film, he's literally 6'4.

    I mean seriously, are we just making things up now? I don't like Burks because he's 5'5 and ran a 5.6 40. I don't care what the actual measurements were, that's what he looked like on film to me.
     
    #115 REVISion, Apr 5, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not making anything up. In the game film I saw he didn't look much taller than the DBs who were covering him, he didn't have any leaping ability either. and a lot of his catches were contested. At 6'4" they shouldn't be, especially with how fast he runs the 40. I'll take your word for his official Combine time and height, but I still don't want him. Initially, I was totally unimpressed with him, but allowed myself to be influenced by posters here. Then I went back and watched him again, and saw why I never liked him in the first place. I think he plays slower than he ran the 40, whereas Bucks plays faster than he ran the 40.
     
  17. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Ozzie gave him excellent advice, and I'm all over JJ at 10 or even at 4 because of his attitude, sack production, measurables, and athleticism. I'm not 100% sure about taking KT at 4, because it's not clear that he loves the game. I do think that he loves what the game can do for him, and that he's willing to work hard to make it as a success. His trainer vouches for him [Kayvon Thibodeaux's work ethic isn't a concern for those who know him best (jetsxfactor.com)], and he clearly believes in making his foundation a success [The Jream Foundation]. So I think he'll do what he has to do to be a success, apart from the level of love he has for the game. The danger of drafting KT, it seems to me, is not that he won't be a good (possibly great) player, but that he'll pull an Adams if the team is not winning.

    I have more concerns about Walker than I do KT because of another famous quote, this one by Parcells: "Potential means you haven’t done anything yet.” What could be more accurate for a guy who has incredible measurables but who has never had sack production?
     
    #117 joelip, Apr 5, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  18. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    This is the Steeler's record for the last 5 years. Yeah sign me up for this every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Jets have been downright awful for 2 decades, Can't believe you went there.

    Year Record Finish (Regular / Post Season)
    2020
    12-4-0 1st -- AFC North
    2019 8-8-0 2nd -- AFC North
    2018 9-6-1 2nd -- AFC North
    2017 13-3-0 1st -- AFC North
     
  19. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    I like Otton. I also like Duclich from UCLA really good yards after the catch.
     
  20. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    Huh? He raved about Sherman when he was in Seattle. Sherman was still a productive corner and set the tone for that Seahawk defense.
     

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