Does anyone else not like the was the 3-4 looks. Ever since I heard we were going to be implementing this system I wasn't quite sure how it was going to work. I am more of a critic of the system of having 4 lbs and only 3 dls than the players we have playing it. I think that even with the right players this system isn't as effective as the 4-3. Maybe our run stopping problems are stemming from not having another big body in there on the D-Line. Also as we all noticed, the pass rush has been very poor for the first two games. I can count on one hand the number of times that we have put the QB under pressure.
yes i agree we need to give it more time, but i was never a fan of the 3-4...it's too relient on the EXACT personal to run it...teams like the patriots and steelers are fortunate enough to have great, big burly lineman and smart athletic linebackers to run it...most teams dont have that kinda personal...look how good the ravens defense looks since switching back to a 4-3...it allows ray lewis to use his speed to make plays, and that is how we need to use vilma
It's kind of sad that I didn't hear Kimo's name once that whole broadcast and I only heard Ellis's name once.
By the way, I never said we should switch I just agree with Sowellisgod that I am not a huge fan of the system.
NE has a huge and powerful run blocking OL and two very good running backs. There aren't 4 other teams in the league with the kind of power running game we faced today.
The 3-4 system works in the NFL. Pittsburgh and New England have proven that. The problem is, it takes 2-3 years to get the correct personell and also to have all the players to be comfortable within it. This is pretty much the only thing Mangini has done thus far that I've been critical of. Vilma, D rob, Ellis, and Barton(which in the past have been our best players on D) are all better fits for the 4-3. Sure, all of them have the talent to be placed into a role in the 3-4..but it will take acouple years of adjusting...and by then Ellis and Barton maybe past their primes...and D rob's gonna be booed out of town by people who have been trying to proclaim him a bust since game 1 of his rookie season. I believe eventually the 3-4 will be a success for us. But it certainly is gonna have some growing pains which we are seeing right now. Be patient.
I agree our linebackers dont really fit this defense yet, Hobson,Barton and Vilma just dont look as good as they used too in this defense we need bigger linebackers to help Vilma out if we are going to continue playing the 3-4.
I wouldn't say the Pats OL is huge and powerful. Mankins is certainly a talented guy, Light is very consistent and Neal has some skills..but none of them are elite. What makes their running game what it is..is 2 things... 1. The Marroney/ Dillion change of pace. The "Thunder and Lightning" theory truly works when you have the right guys. It totally keeps a defense unbalanced and disrupts their timing within shooting the gaps. 2. OL Cohesion- Neal, Light and Hochstien/Koppen(either or usually starts at center) have been playing together for going on 3 years, Mankins for 2. The system hasnt changed much...so what you see is guys who are comfortable and well adjusted to the scheme, and who have great chemistry together.
All that is true but they are also big and fired out on us and we are undersized and were pushed back which plays right into Dillon's game.
4 out of the last 6 Super Bowl winning defenses have been 3-4 base defenses. Even the Ravens in 2000-01 use to switch back and forth from their 4-3 base to the 3-4. I agree that we lack the personel, but disagree that the system does not work. The lack of a pass rush was inevitable with the lost of Abe, who BTW would have been an ideal fit in this scheme as a ROLB. You need pass rushers to have a an effective pass rush. In order to generate a good pass rush in a 3-4 scheme, you need 2 good pass rushing OLBs (i.e., Vrabel & Colvin/McGinnest, Merriman & Foley/Phillips, Ware & Ellis, Porter & Haggans...etc); we barely have one in, Thomas. Thank God that next year's draft will be loaded w/ undersized DEs, which make for perfect 3-4 OLBs.
Damn did I not call this thread last week after the Tennessee game IF we lost today? So predictable you people...Next will be anti Chad or Mangini threads...Although their was already 1 anti-Chad thread today...
This is very different than the anti-mangini or chad threads. I think I made a valid point about our 4 Lb's getting pushed around by their OL. Also I watched the whole game how the Pats went to a 4-3 and were able to easily stuff the run. Even though our OL is young and our RB's arent good that 4 DL set just seems like it will work better. But we are stuck with what we've got and I guess we need to get that NT for the run and the pass rushing LB.
Just putting this out there as a piece of information. The Jets record in years where the base defense was a 3-4: 1978: 8-8 1985: 11-5 1986: 10-6 1987: 6-9 1988: 8-7-1 1989: 4-12 1997: 9-7 1999: 8-8 2000: 9-7
we have no NT and no 3-4 players in general, outside of the washed-up guys the new regime brought in. All the core hold-over players on the D are better suited for the 4-3, usually much better.
