from Pat Kerwin NFL.COM THE 3-4 DEFENSE ...WHO DOES IT HELP NOW? When the Steelers had the run of the house with the 3-4 defense, they presented problems for opposing offenses. Teams just didn't see the 3-4 very much, and with the blocking schemes changing, the pressure on the passer coming from different types of players, and the defensive linemen more interested in controlling the line of scrimmage than penetrating into the backfield, there were unique problems the 3-4 defense presented. As one head coach said to me two years ago, "We just don't get enough work against the 3-4 front." Joey Porter had 10.5 sacks last year, but the opposition may find a way to stop him. Today, there are so many coaches pondering the concept of putting the 3-4 defense in as a ploy that I had to ask a few NFL officials what the ripple effect might be if the 3-4 becomes a part of more than half the teams in the league. Right now, most offensive coordinators plan for 3-4 principles only when they play New England, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Oakland (maybe) and possibly another team that is doing it on occasion. I asked a few offensive coaches in the league what the effect of the 3-4 defense is right now, and I heard this from two of the better coaches: "The more reps our offense gets against the 3-4, the faster we will play." Another O-line coach said to me, "With San Francisco, Cleveland, the Giants and God knows who else is experimenting with the 3-4 as a series, it is getting easier for our offensive linemen and backs to block the defense." Finally, for most offenses in the NFL, they feel the mystique of the 3-4 is coming to an end. That means pass protections, running lanes and blocking schemes are getting easy to understand and react to. -------------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disregard any article that has the name "Pat Kirwan" at the top of it. As a personnel man this guy showed a complete lack of talent. Moreover, I have noticed, after reading his opinion for years, that he is no more knowledgeable than the above average poster on a football message board. Aside from teams that are extremely gifted at developing young players, like Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and Chicago, I highly doubt you will see any more black and white 4-3/3-4 only teams. With free agency and the extreme parity that exists in the league today, teams expect results right away, and I suppose, that more often than not, coaches are going to be more apt to design schemes around the existing talent. Meanwhile, the bar is being pushed ever higher when it comes to athleticism. Players like Brian Westbrook, Michael Vick, Antonio Gates, and Troy Polamalu are changing dynamics. You're going to see less and less of the big slow tight end or Eddie George type running back, and defenses are going to have to be more fluid. That being said, I don't think in any way that the Pittsburgh Steelers defense is going to be any less effective than it's been for the last decade. Provided the athleticism and discipline is there, the 3-4 still remains formidable and disruptive. -X-
The 3-4 comes into vogue anytime that the NFL is swinging back towards rushing and controlled short passing offenses as the main method of attack. That's because the 3-4 is primarily designed to shut down the running and short passing game. The move back towards the 3-4 in the AFC began in 2000 when the Ravens, and Raiders were using short control offenses to dominate. The Patriots emerging as the new powerhouse solidified the trend. Now we're seeing more game-breaking deep passing offenses out of Indy, Cincy, KC and Oak and Culpepper has arrived in Miami and the AFC is beginning to rethink the 3-4/4-3 proposition. The Steelers and Ravens may be the only pure power rushing attacks left in the AFC at this point and while the 3-4 has it's merits the 4-3 may be a better build for the next few seasons.
And that is why I believe (I also believe it can rain beer) we will see a hybrid of the two. Hear me out here ... been alot of talk about BT playin OLB/DE combo. Fine ... let him stand up on first down .. or drop down .. or stand up etc to keep the Oline guessing. Figure NT could be about anyone at this point .. DRob or Von Oelhoffen (yes I also believe you will see DRob play a bit of DE in the 34) at end & obviously Ellis. Von Oellhoffen/Robertson both can slide inside to DT when BT drops into the 3 pt. etc etc ... Am I dreaming ... probably. Will I ever see it raining beer ... thats a story for another day.
Yeah, that 3-4 really sucks. I mean, the Colts pick it apart in the playoffs every year. and when was the last time a 3-4 defense won the super bowl? Oh, righ, Pittsburgh uses it. But NE.... oh wait, they use it too. But, the Chargers shut down that colts winning streak last year and... oh wait, they run a 3-4. Gee..... just how long has it been since a 4-3 team won the whole enchalada?
Back when the 3-4 was "THE" defense in the 1980's, teams started to run a lot of the two (2) tight end, one running (power) back type offense. That type of offensive set-up seemed to neutralize the 3-4 quite nicely which is why it fell out of favor for so long. Now that more teams are starting to use the 3-4 again, I wouldn't be surprised to see more teams go back to the two tight end, power running type sets.
Personally I'd be happier seeing the Jets run a 43 next season because they have better personnel for it (I'm not convinced by Ellis in the 3-4, I worry about Vilma being protected and I shudder to think of Thomas as an every down linebacker though he may still prove me wrong.)
yeah..it does suck..see thunders post to explain why it sucks so much. Hey raj..its better than the 4-3 or even the 1-10 that dork in KC used to run around here. Oh wait...we played with only 10 defenders a couple times while your genius patrolled the sidelines like a lost kid looking for his parents inside a macys department store..so make that a 1-9 defense. My theory this year is pretty simple..and not asking much...if the Jets have 11 defenders on the field..its a plus.
Ellis was great in the 34 his rookie year recording 8.5 sacks and taking up blockers well. With Vilma it's a matter of opinion, but I'm a believer that great players excel no matter what system they are put in (Ray Lewis) and I believe Vilma is/will be that type of player. I'm not worried about him... If you've ever seen a Parcells/Belly defense you know the linebackers rotate alot. Thomas will be competing for the majority of time, but either way there will be a rotation at every LB Spot so don't worry about that.
EXACTLY - It's not about some label - "3-4" "4-3" it's about how a defense can disguise what they are trying to do and how they can change things up and be unpredictable at the LOS.... That's what Mangini is shooting for. I don't think it matters what label the defense has - They should actually call it the 'Unpredictable No-Name Defense" Cuz that's what it is and what it should be, just the best players in the best positions to succeed given the down and distance and offenive situation - If you want to sit there and count how many people can be considered a LB and how many a DL and label each play as 3-4 or 4-3 than go ahead and enjoy but, the labels and talk of labels gets out of hand.... And an UNPREDICTABLE defense will never go out of style or be figured out - It's about staying in front of the curve.
Of course the mystique of the 3-4 is over. It was new and not many teams used it, now it is not so new and more teams are using it. It is the same for every new defensive, offensive, and ST scheme ever developed. It is the same for many things in life in general. New = mystique, get it? It does not mean it sucks, or ineffective. It all depends on the talent, coaching and execution on the field. There will be hybrids developed and completely new schemes, so what? So my response to Kirwan and this thread is 1) No shit sherlock, and 2) What's your point?
Agreed. The game still comes down to blocking and tackling. Those are the two most important aspects of football and don't let anyone tell you any differently. There have been a number of times where on a football Friday, a co-worker would ask me if I thought the Jets would win that Sunday. Sometimes I would simply answer, "If they tackle well."
