2021 Final Rookie QB finishes

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ouchy, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Most of these are irrelevant dude. 5/7 are from a different era of football including Peyton Manning. And Andrew Luck took his team to the playoffs.

    Eli is a good comparison I guess. But I’m not sure if you remember how the entire tri-state area wanted him cut all the way until he won that wild first Super Bowl. Eli was always a magician at the line though. He walked into the NFL with it being an elite skill. He just had bad ball placement and accuracy issues that followed him his whole career.

    It was funny because when he lead the league in interceptions, the statistic was always thrown out there that a large volume of his interceptions had touched his own receivers hands. Everyone from local talk radio to national TV made excuses for him. This was because he was throwing the ball in shitty places to be caught.
     
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  2. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I’ve always been in on this as well. Trash franchises need to consistently draft quarterbacks later on in the draft. There’s a small percentage that they’ll work out, but there’s 0% chance you hit on one if you don’t take them.
     
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  3. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    It is not irrelevant Football has not gotten easier for the QB it has gotten harder. The point I am making being successful especially a young QB is more on the team, (Players, Coaches, talent around him) than it is the QB (ie David Carr). A couple of kids come out of the gates and play well and we think that is the norm it is not (Not any position in the NFL). When looking at young or rookie Qb the numbers are irrelevant and context is important on a bad team. I look at 1. How complicated is the offense 2. Can he make throws - He has made some awesome amazing throws, 3. Pocket presence - He has been good and bad 4. Reading defenses - He is making the correct reads he just needs to speed up his clock and it has a the season progressed. 5. Turnovers- You cant play in the NFL if you are turning the ball over especially with a bad defense (He got better as the year went on). 6. Consistency - This is where Zach has struggled the most and pretty normal for a young QB. He will have a good half bad half etc.

    Stop looking at the numbers and put on the tape. When you put on the tape Zach has shown some real promise. Now that he has experience it is up to him to put in the work and be more consistent. I think we we drafted a good one and have not been this excited about a QB since Pennington (And he couldn't even get on the field until year 3).
     
  4. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    It's gonna be a shit show until they put together a decent O-line and some receivers to throw to.

    That last game was more an indictment on Joe Douglas than Zach Wilson.
    I'm not even saying that Zach is any good... but how can you properly evaluate him with what he's working with?

    Name one quarterback that could win with this team as it currently put together on both sides of the ball... I'll wait.
     
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  5. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Huh? How do you figure?

    QB's now are putting up way bigger numbers than ever before. The rules of the game have changed significantly to make it easier for QB's. CB's can't be as physical with WR's and you're basically not allowed to hit a QB anymore.

    Only a few QB's have good first seasons because only a few QB's end up being good enough to stay in the NFL. It's not like there are a large number of QB's who have bad first seasons and end up being good. Most of the guys who have bad first seasons are on their way to being backups or out of the league.
     
  6. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Huh? I’m not even talking about Wilson really. I’m talking about you trying to compare rookie years of a quarterback in 1989 to one in 2021.

    The game is not the same. There have been so many rule changes to benefit the quarterback.

    Not to mention you’re telling me to watch the tape and then you brought up all there stats.

    Dude - did you watch Andrew Luck his rookie year? Please tell me on what planet their rookie seasons were anywhere near similar? He was third in the league in Y/C because they threw the ball downfield so much with Arians.
     
    #86 Jonathan_Vilma, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:54 PM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 4:19 PM
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  7. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    Seriously?
     
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  8. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    Luck had an amazing 6 year career. I especially love his playoff stats where he threw more INT's than TD's and had a passer rating of 73.4.
     
  9. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    You're talking to a guy that saw NO improvement during the season from Zach Wilson. I'm not sure why you are even debating him.
     
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  10. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    How was the last game on Douglas? You can't roster than many people as to afford that many guys being out. Impossible.
     
  11. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    The talent, or lack of, is his responsibility.
     
  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    What does that have anything to do with the context of the conversation?
     
  13. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Quarterback stats are way better these days than 20 years ago. This is an objective fact. Also, if you think Zach and Luck's rookie seasons were comparable, I don't know what to tell you other than to watch the tape of Luck's rookie season. And the team went 2-14 the previous year; yes they were playing Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky at QB, but they were far from stacked even when Luck got there.
     
  14. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Don't remember saying that.
     
  15. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Simply not true.
     
  16. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    How many months untill training camp? :D
     
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  17. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    It's gotten much easier to play QB in the NFL over the last two decades.

    Simple numbers tells the tale:

    Year Cmp% AYP Sack Ratio
    2021 64.8% 6.64 1/15.41
    2020 65.2% 6.82 1/15.87
    2019 63.5% 6.74 1/13.99
    2018 64.9% 6.89 1/13.63
    2017 62.1% 6.57 1/14.63
    2016 63.0% 6.76 1/16.36
    2006 59.8% 6.40 1/14.08
    2005 59.5% 6.33 1/13.92
    2004 59.8% 6.59 1/13.67
    2003 58.8% 6.22 1/15.1
    2002 59.6% 6.28 1/14.72
    2001 59.0% 6.31 1/13.53

    The league completion percentage was fairly constant from 2001 to 2006 at about 59%. By 2016 the league was completing 63% and that number is trending upwards since then.

    The league got about 6.4 yards per attempt over the early sample and has averaged about 6.8 YPA recently.

    The # of sacks per pass attempt was about 1 per 14.1 attempts in the early sample and about 1 per 15 attempts in the later.

    If you adjust Zach Wilson's stats for the different time periods he is at about 53% completion percentage for 5.8 yards per attempt . He gets sacked about every 8.5 drop backs.

    These are historically bad numbers for anything approaching a full season. They are Richard Todd numbers when you further adjust for era between the 70's and the 20's.

    For the 00's period they are right on track, although slightly worse than Joey Harrington.
     
    #97 Br4d, Jan 14, 2022 at 7:24 PM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 7:31 PM
  18. tubby

    tubby Active Member

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    Did he get better after injury or no?

    I want to know if I should take your posts seriously moving forward


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Erring on the side of caution is usually a good idea.
     
  20. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    Time will tell.
     

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