2020 NY Jets Purge

I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying all positions are important in their own way. Sure QB is a little more important then most but outside of that, it's hard to say one position is way more important then others. We know we have holes, every team has holes. that's the whole idea behind the cap and parity in the NFL. Also overloaded by perception isn't overloaded by reality. leo was considered an "overloaded" pick because we had richardson and wilkerson and low and behold both of them were gone shortly after and leo was the new starter. Now leo may be gone next offseason too. things change fast in the NFL. you just stock up your roster as best as you can.

 

Literally the only thing we have going for us Monday is the football gods hate the Browns as much as they hate us.

 

You stock your roster while addressing need at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. You just need someone at the top who understands these dynamics.

 

it's all a balance and it's easier said then done. You don't pass on a blue chip stud for an average player of need. that's how you fail hard and become a joke (see giants taking daniel jones at 6) the drafts recently have sucked for o-line and nobody worth us taking. Houston reached for OT this year that was a 4th rounder in the 1st round and then had to trade 2 1st rounders to miami for tunsil and watson still is getting demolished. that's 3 1st rounder they put into their o-line in less then 6 months and it's still not working. not to mention they traded away a stud pass rusher as well

 

Who's talking about an "average player of need"? There's been plenty of talented, productive, good citizen prospects at many positions of need that the Jets have passed on in favor of these ill advised picks. We've been through many of those names ad nauseum. Again it comes back to the guys doing the drafting and the talent evaluators. The Jets brass has sucked at both of these things for a long time. That is the big elephant in the room. BPA and Need. It's possible to marry these two concepts.

 

No. I wanted Josh Allen or a trade down to garner at least a 2nd round pick so we could draft a Center. I didn't want Q Williams at all.

 

I'll give you josh allen this year for sure although many felt 3 was a bit high for him. but outside of him what have we passed on that made sense at the time? I hope JD does better then mac and winds up as one of the best GMs in the NFL but the reality is, even if he does, fans here will still have such unrealistic expectations they will find a way to hate him.

Let me show you this another way, who do you think is the best GM in the NFL?

 

I hear you about the unrealistic fan expectations and that's valid. I just want a top 10 GM. Someone who builds a foundation and continues to add to that in the draft and FA. Best GM in the NFL? Off the top of my head I love what Ballard has done in Indy. His 2018 draft was phenomenal with Nelson, Leonard and Smith. The year before with Marlon Mack in the 4th was a very nice pickup. Obviously Luck retiring is going to set his plan back considerably but I'm interested to see how he responds. I'd probably say Belichick, Roseman, Snead, Ballard and a few others lead the list. It is a very fluid deal I agree and it's hard to consistently stay on top but hopefully we can at least have a plan and just build off that for several years in a row. It would be a nice change around here to the constant flux.

 

OTOH, Maccagnan was well below average in rounds 2-5. And there was nothing to suggest that it was going to improve. Heck, his 3rd round pick this year didn't even make the 53 man roster. And I foolishly bought into Polite developing into the edge rusher we've lacked for a decade and a half.

 

well Ballard a shitty pick since he's only been the colts GM since 2017 so too hard to judge him so soon. but the colts also haven't won anything. their QB just retired too at the age of 29 and it's way too soon to really judge their draft picks. not to mention all the extra picks he got from the jets trade. So nobody can really judge him yet. The pats are a tough judge becuase technically they don't have a GM and bill is considered the de-facto GM and they are the rare exception to anything in the NFL.

So lets look at Snead since I know a lot about already because I do think he is one of the best and have referenced him a lot on this forum (i can go voer roseman later if u want)

Snead took over the rams in 2012. they went 2-14 the year before but the roster was pretty similar regardless. He already had a FQB in bradford who was a 1st overall pick 2 year prior and OROTY in 2010 who took them form a 1 win team as a rookie to a 7 win team and they only reason they only won 2 games was bradford getting hurt. they were 6-7 win team he took over with a young FQB on a rookie deal. He got to rebuild right away with a ton of picks and it took him 6 years to make that team a playoff team and 7 years to make a SB. That's one of the best too. which is why I say this unrealistic 2-3 year rebuild idea fans have and placed on mac is insane. it took snead 6 years as one of the best. His overall record for 7 years is 55-56-1 a losing record. His record the 1st 5 years was 31-48-1.

Now lets look at his picks and what he's done as a GM. his 1st season he started with the 2nd overall pick and a redskins team desperate for a QB picking 6th gave them the 6th overall pick, their 2nd round pick, and 2 future 1st picks in an infamously bad trade where they selected RG3. on top of that he took the 6th pick and traded down again to 14th overall with the cowboys for an extra 2nd round pick and the cowboys took mo claiborne 6th overall. So now he's turned that 2nd overall pick into the 14th overall pick, 2 extra 2nd round picks, and extra 1st round picks for the next 2 drafts. funny enough his 1st pick was DT brockers who plays DE in thei system and who averages less then 3 sacks a year in his 7 year career, never made a probowl and has been pretty average at best despite playing alongside one of the best linemen in the NFL for several years drawing all the attention. Not a good pick. much better options included bruce irin taken with the next pick, melvin ingram like 4 picks later, chandler jones 3 picks after that, and donta hightower 4 picks after that. (freaking pats huh) none the less he drafted a bust WR and bust RB in round 2 with 2 of his 3 picks due to trading down and 4 other busts (rounds 4, 5, and 2 7s) but did do a great job grabbing DBs jenkins and trumain in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. so basically with all those high picks they got a decent d-lineman and 2 good CBs and a bunch of junk and 2 out of his 3 2nd rounders (which were all high picks) were busts

2013 draft now he as 2 1st rounders due to the previous trade. he spends his 1st one on tavon austin who isn't a bust per se, but was never the stud WR expected and really just was a good returner and gadget player most of his career. the other pick was alec ogletree who through his whole rookie deal was just a decent player. not a bad pick for 30th overall since he started eveyr year but nothing great. his option year he had a great season which prompted snead to give him a huge contract. he didn't live up to the contract in 2017 so they traded him away to the giants along with a 7th rounder for a 4th and a 6th. he then had 2 3rds, a 4th, and 2 5ths for the rest of the draft. all of which turned out to be busts

2014 again he has 2 1st rounders due to that trade 2 years ago and this year he killed it. he used them on LT greg robinson and DT aaron donald. Both excellent players. Robinson isn't with the team anymore and just kicked someone in the face but he's still a great LT and donald is the best d-lineman in the NFL. after that though he had a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2 6s and 4 7s for a total of 9 players. got 1 below average starter and 8 busts.

2015 todd gurley in the 1st. great pick. a couple of average lineman and 6 more busts

2016 needed a QB took goof 1st overall. only had 4th and lower picks after that though. all busts.

2017 no 1st rounder cause the goff trade. but got a nice slot WR in the 3rd with cupp. the other 7 picks busts


I won't even do 2018-2019 because too early to judge but you can look at it and go after 5 years he has like an 80% draft bust rate and had a 31-48-1 record and no playoffs so he should have been shit canned. or you can say he drafted donald, goff, jenkins, tru, robinson, etc and eventually got to a SB after 7 years. that is why I say fans need to have patience cause premature shit canning of GMs sets back franchises.

 

So much can happen over the next 5 months I think its far too early to make predictions with any sort of confidence *EXCEPT* the fact that we absolutely need to draft a kicker in the late round. If you don't draft a kicker you either pay too much for someone good (if someone good is even available) or you end up with another shitty kicker that nobody else wanted and we are back to square 1. Given the fact that even our high draft picks rarely pan out (or even make the team), its a no brainer to take a kicker in the 5th - 7th round.

 

not that i care if they draft a kicker in the 6th round but your take is completely inaccurate. How many kickers playing now were drafted? Are the ones who were drafted versus UFAs any better? I dont know the answers but something tells me if someone looked, it would show there is no reason to draft a kicker

 

Exactly what Maccagnan said. How is that working out for us? If kickers are so easy to find, why can't we find a decent one right now?

 

What the hell are you talking about shitty pick? You don't discount a GM based on their tenure. That's silly. You judge them based solely on their work performance, bottom line. You seem to have a skewed set of metrics for your evaluation criteria. Furthermore, Ballard has been there more than two full seasons which is enough time to give him a full critique. The Colts just went to the playoffs last year. Nelson and Leonard were All-Pro last year. Beyond impressive for two rookies. Smith was a consensus All-Rookie pick. That's the type of draft haul that a GM can leverage for years. If someone like Mac got 4-5 years as a shitty GM, then imagine how much run Ballard can get off of that excellent draft. Those 3 guys right there make it a great draft, end of story. And who's to say there's not more great drafts to come for him. Of course anything can happen down the line but this isn't the projection business. It's the show me business and what we know is through 2.5 years Ballard is considered one of the top GM's in the league. We also know what those players have already accomplished. Its all about production. Only loser franchises like the Jets say it's too soon to judge their players or GM because that's another in a long line of excuses to justify just how poorly this franchise has been run. It's just buying time, appeasing fans, and being SOJ. You can never knock players or front offices who produce. What the future holds is unknown and should not be used to detract from their current accomplishments.

 

had to stop reading here "...why we should be optimistic as fans" - it must surely be near impossible by this stage for any jets fan to be optimistic about the future of this franchise

 

How often during season does a kicker get hurt & team signs someone off the street w little to no drop off?

Finding a kicker is easy until it isnt

 

my main problem with cutting Leonard Williams is that we will then more than likely draft yet another defensive lineman in the first round (that fails to stick with the team like so many Jets draft picks at that spot before them)

 

I'm not discounting his tenure i'm saying he hasn't been a GM long enough to judge. it would be like judging Q based on 3 quarters of play as a rookie. You have to give a GM a good 3-4 years minimum to judge

you also completely ignored 99.9999% of my post to focus on me not judging someone with too small of a resume. it seems you are only proving my point with your reply and slanted view

 

That means that it's safe to say that Maccagnan was below average and giving him more time wouldn't have him any better as a GM. Ballard has had a great draft under his belt already, so there's evidence to show that he could become a great GM if he isn't one already.