1 Sentence Thoughts on Bosa, Allen, & Williams

Discussion in 'Draft' started by DarrelleRevis.Human?, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. DarrelleRevis.Human?

    DarrelleRevis.Human? Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick description on my process. I don't follow college players or teams but just ever so often. This past year I didn't at all. So for me when I go to evaluate these players I have no biases, or preformed thoughts. I only watch film, and listen to accounts about the players personality on and off the field.

    So here are my 1 sentesnce findings on each of these players, and a NFL comparison of each.

    Williams
    He only has one knock and that's only playing at a high level for one year, but he is a true technician that makes his powerful body do exactly what he wants it to and knows how and when to do it.
    Comp: Aaron Donald

    Bosa
    I like the tools that Bosa has in his bad that he can deploy at a moment's notice when trying to get to the QB, his issue is the lack of freak athleticism and the length to get into the chest of a OL before they can engage him.
    Comp: Joey Bosa

    Allen
    Physically he is everything that Bosa is not but he doesn't have 1/4 of the learned skills and techniques that Bosa has mastered.
    Comp: DeMarcus Lawrence


    In conclusion,
    I feel like Bosa could be the safest option if pass rush is the primary goal among the 3 as he is the most polished ready to go player of the 3, but he is also the most limited to progress.
    Allen could be an absolute world-beater but for right now he can only effectively bend coming off the edge, which is a great trick to have if it's the only one you've got but as starting QBs become more mobile multiple paths to the QB are a necessity. However, he might possibly have the highest ceiling of the 3.
    To me I think Williams offers the most value. He is ready to play now and his upside could be Aaron Donald. While I wouldn't make the claim that he will be a generational talent that Donald is, merely having a chance to be that is very tempting. Especially when your floor with him is likely Geno Atkins. The downside is if you draft him in hopes of being your pass rusher and he can't consistently beat the double team.
     
    #1 DarrelleRevis.Human?, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  2. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    Bosa could be our modern day gastineau, without the jumping and dancing.
    Allen could be our modern day abraham, without the flu.
    Williams could be our modern day klecko, without the injuries (hopefully)

    LOL.
     
  3. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    When I watch Bosa at the combine etc, HE reminds me of Klecko! White dude with THICK legs and HUGE motor. But I like your 3 sentence summary!
     
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  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Williams - On the Jets, not a difference maker.

    Bosa - One dimensional, and quite possibly not the difference maker many think he will be.

    Allen - Multi-dimensional and definitely a difference maker.
     
  5. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Bosa-Sign this Beast

    Allen-Yes, Sign him too

    Williams-Oh well ...another DL (What can our Def Coordinator Scheme up?)
     
  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Great summary, but I still wonder why we need another DL? When will we draft a pure pass rusher? For me, that's Allen #1, Bosa #2.

    I'm still hoping they get offered a ton to trade down within the 6-10 range where they can still get a premium player, and recoup a high 2nd rounder as well as maybe next year's #1.
     
  7. DarrelleRevis.Human?

    DarrelleRevis.Human? Well-Known Member

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    Let me first address trading back. In that scenario I hope if it happens we wait until draft day to drive up the price, and only do so if it is for a Kings ransom.

    I understand your reservations for drafting DL. I was very hesitant myself when I heard the rumblings that this kid from Alabama could be taken at #3 by the Jets. Then I started watching film and I understood why quickly. This wouldn't be a pick for need, but rather taking the most complete player in the draft, who could also be an elite pass rusher (see Aaron Donald's 20.5 sacks from 2018). Prospect wise the other 2 guys have their fair share of legit concerns of how they could translate, where with Williams he looks poised to be a top 10 DL off the rip as a rookie.

    From the scheme and fit perspective I think he offers a lot even if he plays at his floor. I touched on the benefit of a dominant interior lineman working well in this shift to more mobile QBs by NFL teams, an interior push works well against both pocket or mobile QBs taking them off their spot making their movement more predictable going left to right outside the pocket.

    This especially works well for the personnel we have on the roster. This frees up Leo and Anderson to set the edge and set up a shed and stuff, and Mosley and Avery to be able to play to their strengths blowing up gaps storming down hill. Quinnen should make Leo a much better player and vice versa. This is important with Leo coming up on a contract next season where we can take him or leave with an addition of Quinnen, more flexibility in structure moving forward.

    This may sound like I am trying to devalue edge rush which is not the case. I am merely saying that with the evolution of the rules towards QBs along with the increasing use of more mobility at the position, this puts a stronger emphasis on that edge to not just be good, but be exceptional to be more valuable than a near perfect Aaron Donald type prospect.
     
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  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree with your reasoning.

    The "other 2 guys" do NOT have their fair share of legit concerns. Williams has more concerns than either Bosa or Allen. For starters, he only started for one year and had one year of elite production. If he's so great, why didn't he start previously since he obviously better than whomever Alabama had starting at his position the year before? Two, he's practically identical to Leon Williams in size, ability, etc. Leon has not fared well in the NFL on the interior of the DL. More than likely, Q. Williams will be no more successful than Leon going against NFL OL. It would be an unnecessary duplication of position and talent level on the interior and still leave the Jets with no exterior pass rush. As KurttheJetsFan so ably pointed out, with no edge rush, it is easy for teams to pinch their formation inwards and pretty easily nullify an interior rush. Interior rushes are only so successful when there is a strong edge rush as well.

    Bosa has some injury concerns and had little production in college, so there is some concern with him. Allen has no concerns. He put up outstanding production for 3 years in college on raw natural ability alone. He is a hard worker. He could have entered the draft last year, but went back to Kentucky worked hard, improved his game, and has almost unlimited potential. He needs to learn another pass rush move and get better, more consistent hand usage, which I have no doubt he will do, since he wants to be the best and is a hard worker.

    IMO you have it backwards. The edge rush makes the interior rush more effective, not vice-versa.
     
    #8 NCJetsfan, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  9. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I think Rex Ryan would advocate for Quinnen Williams 7 days a week plus Sundays too. Dominant pressure up the middle will generate more QB pressures, hits, and sacks than 5 Bosas trying to bend the edge. The one or so sack that Bosa would gather every other game would make the highlight reels, but games are won in the trenches.
     
  10. DarrelleRevis.Human?

    DarrelleRevis.Human? Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    Hypothetical situation, Quinnen Williams turns out to be just as advertised in his rookie season. Let's say that's somewhere right around the level of Geno Atkins. Atkins has averaged 10 sacks/season since 2015, and had 12.5 in 2012. If you were to place a Geno Atkins type player on the Jets roster last year, how many more sacks does that allow for these other players to rack up? Conservatively you could say 1.5/piece for the 4 major contributors (Anderson,Copeland,Leo,Jenkins), which in reality it would be more like one of them gets an additional sack while another gets 3 or 4 more. Either way that's a 6 sack total improvement on the year.

    Shockingly the Jets were in a 3 way tie at 16th (39 total) in sacks last season. Let's add this all up. A new regime comes in and brings back Copeland and Anderson, while also choosing to stay in a 3-4 base which allows for the retention of a guy like Jenkins. The fact that a highly respected guy like Gregg Williams sees enough in these players to presumably retain them, and a scheme that he doesn't base out of tells me there's something there, it just needs a catalyst (AKA Quinnen).
    Just to finish out this hypothetical, if Quinnen in this situation was to rack up a mediocre 5 sacks in his efforts of spring-boarding the other 4 players do you know where that would place the Jets? Tied for 3rd with Chicago and Minnesota.
     
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  11. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Doubt it. But Leonard gets a crap ton of pressures, you always compliment the inside with an outside rush.
     
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  12. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    This is strictly my gut speaking. I think Q Williams will go before 3, which will make a lot of people here happy. If he does not, I have a hunch the NYJ brass, strictly using the overall rank perspective, have him rated higher than possibly both Bosa and Allen. So unless the CS pushes hard for Allen and or Bosa there is a significant likelihood that Williams gets picked, unless we trade down.
    I can see a scenario which is perfect for the Jets...…Williams and Bosa go one/two in any order. Now we are in the driver seat big time for a trade or run to the podium for Allen. A trade to six would rock big time.
     
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  13. Rockinz

    Rockinz Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to take it to another level! 1 sentence about the positives and 1 about the negatives.

    Bosa Positive - Heavy hands and freakish lower body strength that gives him a nice first step.

    Bosa Negative- Has injury issues and a stubborn support group around him.

    Allen Positive- very quick off the ball, reads the game at an elite level and has fantastic range as an OLB.

    Allen Negative- needs better inside moves.

    Williams Positive- can’t be blocked one on one in the best division in college.

    Williams Negative- Had only 1 solid year of production.
     
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  14. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    yessir, but I've watched Brady step up into a clean pocket to avoid a sack FAR too many times. Pressure right in the QB's face is the best pressure of all, especially against a quick release QB who almost never gets sacked. Having monsters in his face forcing him to take a step backwards is better than outside pressure forcing him to take a step forward, into his throwing motion.

    But I agree, good pressure up the middle along with strong edge rushing would put an defense at the top of the list.

    I think that's exactly what Rex was after with Richardson, Snacks, Wilkerson up the middle, with Coples off the edge. Can you spot the mistake? So yes, outside pressure is important too.
     
  15. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up.

    And no one has seen enough of Allen to say if he's a once in a decade pass rusher worthy of a top draft pic, or just the best pass rusher in the 2019 draft (there's a difference). Whoever we take, just hope he's not another bowling ball with knives (and bad knees!).
     
  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Williams: Good player. I would like the Jets pick.
    Bosa: Good player. I would like the Jets pick.
    Allen: Good player. I would like the Jets pick.

    Thus: Trade down is a certainty.
     
  17. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Bosa- Badly needed temperament & outside presence who'd bring another layer of team accountability & leadershiop to go along w. Adams & Mosley

    Allen- The speed/agility /outside presence the team has needed both in the pass rush & in coverage forever

    Williams- If he succeeds he's the next Deacon Jones, but another 3T in a 3-4?
     
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  18. DarrelleRevis.Human?

    DarrelleRevis.Human? Well-Known Member

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    You know the one thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion of edge vs center pressure, is how the Patriots and Brady fit into that equation.

    I was calling for the downfall of Brady 4 years ago, and here we are with them coming off of yet another SB victory and he hasn't shown the slightest bit of decline. At this point I'm just going to assume that he'll play another 5 years running off of new born baby blood transfusions or whatever. That means that the path to winning the division goes through Foxborough until Brady is gone, and what id the one and only thing that has ever given Brady trouble? You guessed it, pressure up the middle. Edge rush can't touch him when he's releasing the ball faster than even an unimposed edge can reach him.

    So in order to win we have to beat the Pats first, and that means getting to Brady.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    But you won't get pressure up the middle if you don't have any coming off the edges.
     
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  20. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    The jets have been chasing their own tail w this “pressure Brady to win” philosophy for going on 10 years.In fact id go as far to say that theyve done a good job of getting to him over that timeframe.

    Whats killed them against the cheats is a lack of big plays & situational..esp on offense. Theyve done a relatively good job of containing shady & keeping games in grasp.The issue is they settle for field goals way too often on offense & dont make enough big plays in big moments or down the stretch.

    Further,the key to a consistent pass rush isnt an interior push vs edge rush argument.It’s having BOTH to keep blocking schemes from pinching inward to block against interior rushes and not sliding/short setting against solely an edge presence.Its having both to keep OLs spread out & QBs having to remain aware of multiple threats while dropping.

    Jets have had a great interior push on & off since 2008 and its shocking to hear someone still thinking this is a need & the way to go.Teams have consistently pinched inward to grant a clean pocket due to the lack of edge presence against the Jets forever.The only way to take advantage of the interior push is to bring in an edge who can consistently bend & flatten past the OT to the QB.

    Thst said if beating the cheats is the focus id venture to say creating more big plays,scoring TDs instead of Field goals & winning situationally should be the foval point.Not pass rush.
     
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