Not to beat a dead & buried horse in hindsight, but he's right about Logan Mankins & Luis Castillo. JETS had the 23rd overall pick that year & traded down w/Oakland out of the 1st round because they wanted to get Doug Jolley & Oakland's 2nd round pick. They used that 2nd round pick to take Nugent. So they could have taken either Mankins or Castillo if Bradway wasnt so obsessed w/that birdbrained idea of Jolley/Nugent.
We need this many posts to discuss why you don't draft a kicker in the 2nd round? Drafting a kicker in the second round is just plain stupid - no reason to point out why. </thread>
Well I was obviously exaggerating when I said "no one knows college kickers." Of course the scouts know, because it's their job and they have other people and coaches telling them "hey take a look at this guy." And so they work them out. Anyhow, you think he was the only guy in camp when he signed as the UFA? They brought in couple of guys and just let them battle for it. Bringing in UDFA K is basically a open house tryout. They will let everyone have a shot as long as you can kick. The Jets didn't want to deal with that, so they drafted a guy that they felt who can step in on day one and be there for a decade. And also I didn't hear NFL scouting industry and all the analysis on sports show give the Jets all that much flack for picking up Nugent. Look how much money the Colts gave to Vinitiari. If kickers were that easy to find, why would they waste so much money with them. Every scouts agreed that Nugent will be a Vinitiari type of a kicker. That's why the Jets drafted him. Other than K and CB, our biggest need was a QB. That was the only obvious thing in 05 season. And obviously, they weren't going to draft a QB. In the game against Steelers in the playoffs, we couldn't do shit on offense because they put 8 man in the box and Pennington just sucks at passing. We would never even in a situation to kick a winning field goal if it wasn't for S. Moss' punt return TD. There are always exception to the rule. You are not supposed to pick a safety or a TE with your top ten picks either, but many teams have done it and it has paid off for them. Again, I didn't hear too many analysis giving the Jets flack for picking Nugent in the 2nd. Well not everything works out in life. Nugent was possibly the best kicking prospect ever and the Jets took a chance on him. If the Jets picked up a kicker in this draft, I would be pissed as hell, yes, but in that draft it made sense. Why is it moronic to draft a guy who is one of the best prospect ever to come out in his position. Besides, that draft was very very weak. Heath Miller was going through some sort of serious neck or back injury. That drew the red flag from a lot of people. I am not going to question that the Jolley trade was retarded and I am also not saying I still think Nugent pick was smart. I am just saying, at that time, the pick made sense. Also, yes we could have picked Mankins or Castillo if we stayed in 1st. However, why would we draft an OG? Pete Kendall was in good terms with us at that time and he was great for us. And Brandon Moore had just signed an extension with us. Thus I don't see the point in drafting an OG in the 1st. As for Castillo, he got caught with steroids, that drew the red flag from a lot of people. Also, the Jets wanted a huge run stopping DT rather than a pass rushing DT, since they already had that in Robertson. The Jets were struggling in stopping the run. Thus, they drafted Pouhua in that draft.
I was OK with the trade at the time, but now it looks like another serious blunder. Jolley was flat out horrible and Nugent is average. Weak draft or not we could have done better than what we did. Ask yourself this question? A kicker taken in the second round should never even come close to tripping and flubbing his first professional fieldgoal. I think Nugent has only been exposed to one money kick just going from my memory, which he made. I think that is what you really judge a kicker by. His kickoffs are adequate - I can live with them. I do not get a happy feeling when I see him step in for a field goal, though; I have seen him miss quite a few that would be in most kickers wheelhouse. That is not good for our long-term future. Assuming Nugent does come back soon, with Bret Farve on the team you can bet that their could easily be a couple of games this year that will come down to BF driving down the field to set up for a winning fieldgoal with seconds on the clock. If Nugent misses any of them, that will seal the deal for me.
They brought him in because Vinatieri franchised and under a one-year contract and, as we later found out, they were willing to let Vinatieri walk. That's not the question here. The answer to YOUR question, which has nothing to do with nothing, is that the Colts spent that much money because everyone knew Adam Vinatieri could kick in the NFL. The proper question with Mike Nugent is: Why draft a kicker with a first day pick (and in our case, a HIGH first round pick) when you can get a good kicker without giving up that much value. Here's an exercise to put an end to all debate - at least for those not still clinging to a flawed premise. Go check out the fieldgoal percentages for all of the NFL kickers last year. Jay Feely was 21-23, forcryinoutloud. The margin between good and great for kickers is slim. On the other hand, the margin between and good and great position player is dramatic. You keep saying that, but that's precisely the mistake that our front office made. No. No there aren't. Sebastian Janikowski, the only kicker taken higher than Mike Nugent is a middle-of-the-pack kicker. We should have learned from that. And, I'm not sure who said it, might have been you - Mike Nugent was not the most highly-regarded kicker ever to come out of college. That was Janikowski. Teams that don't learn from failures of the past deserve what they get. We deserved what we got with Mike Nugent. Who the hell ever said that?!!! Again, he wasn't. I don't remember that. You'll have to provide a link, because I don't believe that's correct.
Have you heard of this thing called "trade up"? Better yet, Jets FO didn't need Doug Jolley. They could have stayed where they were, and fortified their trench strength. Hindsight my ass. It's not even like Doug Jolley was setting the league on fire, ok?
Not sure if I am being verbally abused here. I am just trying to point out, what's the point of looking back? If Bryan Thomas starts to struggle again, do we start a thread with the title "I can't believe we took Bryan Thomas over Ed Reed" I didn't hear a far out cry by everyone when the Jets selected Nugent. I would say 75% of the people were ok with it and 25% weren't. This isn't the same situation as the Raiders taking Janikowski. Looking back at the draft, who else would you rather have had? Frank Gore? We let Jordan walk. If the Jets were serious about replacing Martin, they would've kept Jordan. R. Parrish? The Jets didn't need another short speedy WR. That's why they shipped S. Moss to the Skins. Kirk Morrison? We had Vilma, and we were still playing 4-3. Why draft another MLB? This thread is also about how incompetent the front office was. So, I am just saying if you are going to bash them for picking Nugent in 2nd, give them their due for moving up in the 4th round ahead of the Packers who wanted a safety in order to pick Kerry Rhodes.
75%??? No way.. and the only reason it wasn't the same was cause Nuge wasn't a criminal. The point is you NEVER pick a kicker in the second round. This is one of many reasons we are still "rebuilding". Fuck Herm and fuck bradyway. I'll agree the point made in this thread has definitely been beaten to death over and over for the last 3 years...
You cry about hindsight, but that is the benefit of seeing a player fail after he is drafted, and seeing the mistake that it was. I wish I hadn't been one of the people defending the Nugent pick and the Jolley trade that preceded it, but I was. I thought there was some brilliance there. I thought that maybe our FO saw something that I didn't and hadn't just been reacting with a knee-jerk reaction to what the fans screamed about, but I was wrong. My view now is truly hindsight, but the beauty of hindsight is that is truly IS 20/20. The Nugent pick was idiotic. The Justin Miller pick was moronic. The Jolley trade was a disaster. You seem to be arguing that they weren't. What does that make your argument? Sundayjack and Bwaysux and certain others argued against those things at the time they happened and they were on the money. You can't argue that unless you are in denial. Are you?
Ughhh. Someone had to bring it up. I wanted Tuck soooo F'n bad that year.......ehhhh. it hurts....how did these so-called "scouts" let Tuck slip past them.....he was dominant at ND.
THis guy was blasting the ball, when he was in college. What happened to him? He was a captain...Hey, isn't he a Mangini guy ? lol:rofl:
I feel the same. My point is that, at that time, these things made sense. I can live with moves that make sense. On paper it looked good. We picked up a CB with "1st round talent" and a kicker to try to erase our memories of John Hall and Doug Brien. Things that bother me the most are the moves that make no utter sense, ie sorry to bring it up but, taking Bryan Thomas even though we had J. Abraham and Ellis while our secondary was in shamble.
Yes, another brilliant move by Herm. THe only reason we took Thomas was Herm and Cottrell wanted a 'bookend' speed rusher on the other side of Abraham because Herm had decided that Shaun Ellis was the next Warren Sapp... an experiment that was abandoned before the season even started that year. Then Herm threw Ellis under the bus that year because he was too slow with all of the extra weight he was told to put on for the 3T position. Some people like to blame only Bradway for the player acquisitions, but they can't in this situation. This one was Herm's baby only. We never would have gone for a DE that year if it weren't for that dumbass.
place kickers are the leading scorer on over half the teams in the nfl and yet you say 'never draft a place kicker in the 2nd round'????????? wtf??? few players have as much of an impact on the success of a team as the place kicker. doug brien ring a bell? adam vinitary ring a bell? as much credit as brady has gotten for his rings, the real hero on almost ALL his sb victories was not brady. it was their fn walk on place kicker. remember the playoff game pats vs raiders? brady fumbles but the 'tuck rule' hands the game over to vinitary who nails a long fg in a driving snow storm to win the game. that ain't worth a 2nd round pic???????? then what is? don't give me 'all kickers are walk ons and a crap shoot'. hell, that could be said of nearly every player drafted (brady almost doesn't get drafted and d'rob is stolen by the jets who move all the way up to 4 to grab him. how'd that work out????). if a team can't use a 2nd round pick on a potentially game changing player for years to come, then that's messed up. plus nuge was the best kicker in the nation when we drafted him and kicking is the one skill that translates pretty well to the nfl. sometimes.
