this whole thread is futile....i agree that we shouldn't have drafted a kicker in the 2nd round...but that whole list of players you listed...given the way our coaching staff 'coaches' players lately...i'm not sure any of them would've turned out the way they did under our watch. Can you imagine Bob Sutton ruining Justin Tuck's career?!....we need new coordinators...hell, maybe even a new head coach. I'm sick of this conservative approach bullshit. /end rant
I didn't say ALL we needed were CB and a K. I said, our BIGGEST needs were a CB and a Kicker. Our defense wasn't dependent upon Ferguson. His last 3 years with the Jets, he sucked. Besides, D'Bust was supposedly making progression. CB's and K was our weakest links. This is a copy cat league. Like I said, when you watch a guy name Adam Vinitiery(sp) kick one game winning kicks after another, you go out and get the guy that you feel can be THAT guy. Besides, if we didn't take him, someone else would have. He wasn't a reach. It's not Jets' fault that all of a sudden he sucks. Also, Kiwi was drafted a year after Tuck. Obviously, Tuck did not show enough to warrant the Giants the security that if something had happened to Osi or Strahan. Fortunately, Gholston can sit behind Pace and B. Thomas, since they are playing so well. I just hope Gholston isn't one of those that doesn't work hard.
As I screamed until I was blue in the face before that draft, some of the very BEST kickers came into the league as undrafted free agents. Vinatieri being the best example. But, when we discuss Nugent, it's not unfair to point out that he turned out to not even be the best kicker in the Big 10. Robbie Gould was an UFA from that same draft class. Adding insult to injury, Robbie Gould was actually CUT be two teams before signing with Chicago to replace the injured *cough* Doug Brien. The irony.
kickers are crap shoot. When you bring in a 6th rounder or a UDFA K into your camp, you bring in bunch of other guys as well and let them battle for it. Nugent on the other hand, won countless number of games with time winding down for the Ohio State. He was even a captain in that team. Can you imagine USC making their kicker a captain. Have a kicker ever become a captain in top 10 teams in college football? They drafted Nugent, thinking he will be the corner stone in the special team for this team for a decade, as was Vinitiari. You have got to be kidding me if you think the teams that drafted a kicker in the 6th round thinking this guy will definitely beat out everyone else in the camp. Hindsight is always 20/20. We are always so quick to point out the wrong. How about giving them some credit for picking up Kerry Rhodes. It wasn't like Rhodes just fell to us in the 4th and we were like eh lets just pick this guy and see what happens. The Packers were looking for safeties in that draft, so we traded up in the 4th round above the packers to select Kerry Rhodes. Roscoe Parrish - He is basically a returner. We have that in Justin Miller who we drafted in 2nd round as well. We didn't need another short ass WR with speed to catch ball for us. That's why that off season, the Jets brought back Coles for Moss. Jonathan Babineaux - Who? This guy has 1 INT in his career. We got Kerry Rhodes that draft. And the year before we drafted Eric Coleman, who had great rookie season. Vincent Jackson - They thought bringing in Coles and reuniting him with his boy Pennington would solve the WR problems. A tall TE/WR comes from small school who runs a good 40 comes out every season. Most of them DO NOT pan out. Justin Tuck - We had Jonathan Abraham and Sean Ellis with B. Thomas in the bench. Kirk Morrison - We had Jonathan freakin Vilma. C'mon! Darrent Williams (RIP, but still) - This guy was 5-9. And we got the guy we wanted, who was Justin Miller. Jets had private workout with Miller. Frank Gore - We had Curtis freakin Martin. We let Jordan walk in the offseason and brought in D. Blaylock. Yeah, I know Blaylock sucked but he wasn't a bad option behind Martin. He was great in Kansas City.
That's all very sweet. Turns out Robbie Gould was better. How'd all that captain stuff work out? They drafted a kicker higher than any other team but the Raiders, when a kicker, as it turns out, wasn't the greatest need of the team. You're soft as PlayDoh if you want to continue to defend that pick. It's not hindsight. For me and others on the board, if was foresight. What the hell does that have to do with the stupidity of drafting a kicker at the top of the second round? And, by the by, giving up value for a waste of space like Doug Jolley. Aside from Kerry Rhodes - a quality pick - the 2005 draft was idiocy top-to-bottom.
Yeah, obviously Robbie Gould turned out better, as did Kerry Rhodes compared to any other safeties in the draft. Before Robbie Gould was drafted, most people had not even heard of this guy. No one knows a college kickers. Only famous/infamous college kickers are those guys from FSU who kicked wide left/right and was not able to defeat Miami. A kicker was an obvious need and they picked out the best prospect. Sometimes the best prospects does not turn out to be the best player in the NFL. However, that was absolutely a smart move to pick up Nugent. And like I said, if the Jets had not picked up Nugent, someone else would have. What do you mean "as it turns out, wasn't the greatest need." The year before Doug Brien couldn't make a kick to save his life. And his incompetency did not start in that game against Steelers, he struggled big time 2nd half of the season. Kicker was a huge need. I don't remember the Jets signing Vinitiari, so they drafted a guy who was "supposed" to be the next Vinitiari. That draft was very weak. They got two players they targeted in the 2nd round. It is hindsight. If Nugent turned out to be like Vinitiari, this discussion wouldn't be happening. Nugent was nearly a SURE thing come out of college. A lot of the other guys from that draft that were taken in 1st and 2nd round are about to be run out of the league. Alex Smith, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, David Pollack, Erasmus James, and those are the only guys in the 1st round. In the 2nd round, there were A LOT more. 2005 draft I bring up Kerry Rhodes, because this is a guy who didn't just fall to us. Obviously we did a lot of research on him and the needs of other teams. That's why we traded up ahead of the Packers in the 4th round to pick him. How many teams trades up for a specific players that late in the draft? Very few if any. If these guys were as dumb as you make it seems, they wouldn't be trading up to pick up Kerry Rhodes. Am I saying Mike Nugent is a great player? Absolutely not. What I am saying is at that time, the pick made perfect sense. Our 2 biggest needs were a CB and a K and we got both of them in the draft. However, no that we have seen them play in the NFL we know they are not all that good. I am pretty sure the front office did not have a device that helped them see the future. 2005 NFL draft Tell me who the Jets should have taken. Not from today's stand point, but from a stand point of 2005. Thus, don't just come out and say "Just Tuck." Because far as the Jets were concerned, they were happy with Abe and Ellis. Only guy that kinda make sense other than Nugent is Kalif Barnes. An OT the Jags took. He was very raw coming out of college though. Again, I am not saying Nugent is a good player. I am just saying, that pick made sense. A lot of people speculated that the Jets would take Nugent. So, this didn't come out of the blue.
If you are that obtuse: 1. Logan Mankins 2. Luis Castillo (in the hope that he can grow into a quality DT) It's not even like the Jets didn't have any need in that department; Jets in Herms/Boobway era is littered with mistakes in personnel decision at the trenches, it's not even funny.
Yeah those are solid players. Too bad they WEREN'T available when Nugent was picked. And this is what this "hindsight" thread is about. The guy who made this thread wanted one of those guys in Bold to be picked instead of Nugent. And I have pointed out why those picks would not have been smart giving the situation in 05 draft. Roscoe Parrish - He is basically a returner. We have that in Justin Miller who we drafted in 2nd round as well. We didn't need another short ass WR with speed to catch ball for us. That's why that off season, the Jets brought back Coles for Moss. Jonathan Babineaux - Who? This guy has 1 INT in his career. We got Kerry Rhodes that draft. And the year before we drafted Eric Coleman, who had great rookie season. Vincent Jackson - They thought bringing in Coles and reuniting him with his boy Pennington would solve the WR problems. A tall TE/WR comes from small school who runs a good 40 comes out every season. Most of them DO NOT pan out. Justin Tuck - We had Jonathan Abraham and Sean Ellis with B. Thomas in the bench. Kirk Morrison - We had Jonathan freakin Vilma. C'mon! Darrent Williams (RIP, but still) - This guy was 5-9. And we got the guy we wanted, who was Justin Miller. Jets had private workout with Miller. Frank Gore - We had Curtis freakin Martin. We let Jordan walk in the offseason and brought in D. Blaylock. Yeah, I know Blaylock sucked but he wasn't a bad option behind Martin. He was great in Kansas City. Besides, at that time we were in good terms with Pete Kendall. The other guard was Brandon Moore who had signed an extension. So, I don't see the need for drafting a OG. D-Bust was "supposedly" making progress. He did pick up 3.5 sacks in 12 games in 05. We had trouble stopping the run, so they wanted someone huge, and they picked up Sione Pouha in the 3rd. Also, Castillo was caught using steroids, so that drew a lot of red flags from a lot of teams. Again, I am not saying Nugent was a good pick looking at the situation now, but in 05, that pick made sense. Nugent was possibly the best kicking prospect ever to come out of college. The only relatively recent pick that bothers me is the passing of Ed Reed to pick up Bryan Thomas. Because John Abraham and Sean Ellis was at their prime at that time, and we clearly needed A LOT of help in the secondary. The D-Rob pick doesn't even bother me that much because we really needed a DT who would emulate Warren Sapp. It's Robertson who let us down by failing to reach his potential.
Don't impute your own ignorance onto the entire NFL scouting industry. He was signed as a UFA by the Patriots. Of course he was known. But more than that, he's just an example of why you don't HAVE to draft a kicker in the second round. He and Adam Vinatieri, David Akers, and even Vanderjagt before he went nuts are textbook examples. Doug Brien, curiously, was a first day draft choice. Funny, that. You're not getting it, and I can't help you with that. Kicker may have been a huge need, but we had MUCH more pressing needs, which the 2005 season revealed. And, all the (apparently) smart teams pick up GOOD (and sometimes great) kickers without spending high second round picks. Picking Nugent that high was dumb. Plain and simple. Of course it would. With very few exceptions, teams don't draft kickers on the first day. What's that tell you? If it were such a rip-roaring-zippity-skip move, teams would be climbing all over each other for kickers on the first day of the draft. Even when his credentials were unchallenged, a good strong group of folks around here were begging the team not to choose a kicker in the second round. Again, it wasn't hindsight, it was foresight. I'd also mention that some on this board were posting such nonsensical things like, "Nugent will be hitting 60 yard field goals," and "Guaranteed points as soon as we hit the 40." How'd that "sure-thing" work out for you? Again, this is why you don't waste value in the draft. Yes, we all understand how much of a crapshoot the draft is. And that's exactly why it's moronic to waste high value in the draft. There were just as many, if not more, people around here talking up Heath Miller prior to that draft. If we didn't make that idiotic Doug Jolley trade and drafted Miller in that spot, we'd be better off today. And, as it turns out, we blew BOTH second round picks that year. The worst part about our stupid front office is that that apparently didn't know they were stupid.
This just in: Gratkowski gravely damaged us at home. BB says he no longer can practice in a bubble. Meanwhile the Jets held tryouts in Florham Park on Monday because they just don't Feely comfortable. There was somebody who held promise after working with Westhoff for only a few minutes.
Reminds me when ex-Packer GM/Coach Mike Sherman traded a 4th and a 3rd to move up a few spots to draft punter BJ Sander. Sanders never even won the Job . Kickers/punters should never be taken before the 6th round.
Even that kid Gostkowski. He was a fourth round pick, and if the Patriots really had confidence in him, they might have kicked the long field goal in the Superbowl and not have finished 18-1.
ARE YOU KIDDING?!?!? They used O'Brien as the patsie for Herm's incompetence and cowardly coaching "Hey guys, let's take a knee and push us 3 yds further back so we don't fumble" Hindsight nothing, Badway & Herm's BOTCHED draft debacle, Jolley & 2nd for a 1st round pick was stupid in any draft, then using that 1st pick on a kicker was just as bad... A kicker, while important is a fringe player, especially when there were holes to fill and aging positions to prepare for. While Nugent is a serviceable kicker he still can barely hit the endzone. I'll never like him, as he'll always remind me of the clown college running the show at the time. :shit:
Sounds crazy, I know, but that may be the only one where I'd give them a pass. Gore was injured so often in college we hardly got to see if he would ever live up to the recruiting hype. Although, between Gore and his third round compadre Maurice Clarett . . .
It's water under the bridge - and was a move by the Bradway/Herm FO. Nothing you can do about it now...
There's just no way to defend a 2nd round pick used on a K. Anybody who knows the draft will tell you it's just plain foolish. Second round picks are absolute gold. You get very good players (often starters) at cheap salaries. Do people remember our second rounder in 2007 - David Harris ?? And All Pro kickers can be had in the very late rounds or even UDFA. It was a stupid decision for Herm/Bradway to take Nugent in the second round. End of discussion.
