Im just looking at the type of players that we have on Defense and as a Jets fan: I can honestly say that for the first time ever, it really looks like Mangini has this 3-4 defense looking like a true "3-4 Defense". But how good can this defense really be? Time will tell, but as of right now, I would love to hear some thoughts from some great Jet fans before the season actually starts On NFL.Com, I checked out a couple of 3-4 teams with some really good NT's because alot of people around footall have been known to say that the NT position is the glue that holds the 3-4 Together and this is what I found. NFL.Com has Vince Wilfork of the Patriots listed as 6'2" weighing in @ 325 pounds NFL.Com also has Jamal Williams of the Chargers listed as 6'3" weighing in @348 pounds Then we have Casey Hampton of the Steelers listed as 6'1" weighing in @ 325pounds. Those are 3 NT's that have played in some pretty solid 3-4 Defenses over the years, now lets take a look at the NT we have this year, Kris Jenkins NFL.Come also has our NT in Kris Jenkins of the Jets listed as 6'4" weighing in @ 335, only Jamal Willismas of the Chargers weighs more than Jenkins but my question is this... Is being the tallest NT of the three a good or bad thing? Jenkins is 6'4 and Jamal Williams is 6'3 so I guess it cant be THAT big of a deal. All in all, it looks like the Jets have the perfect 3-4 NT to help anchor this D-Line along with Coleman and Ellis. ----------------------------------------------------- Lets take a look at some players on the teams of 3-4 Defenses with some really good Outside Linebackers, Then we can compare Pace and Gholston with some of the players Im about to look up. Shawne Merriman, of the Chargers is listed as 6'4" weighing in @ 272 pounds, Shaun Phillips, of the Chargers is listed as 6'3" weighing in @ 262 pounds Greg Ellis, of the Cowboys is listed as 6'6" weighing in @ 265 pounds DeMarcus Ware, of the Cowboys is listed as 6'4" weighing in @ 252 All 4 of those pass rushers for the Cowboys and Chargers are all 6'3 or taller and weighing 252 or more, lets check out the Jets, Gholston and Pace. Calvin Pace, of the Jets is listed as 6'4" 270 pounds, about the frame as S.Merriman Vernon Gholston, of the Jets is listed at 6-4 258 pounds, about the same frame as D.Ware Im not sure about Pace just because I have really never had a chance to watch him play in live games, but as far as Gholston goes, when we drafted the kid, I was really excited because I know what this man brings to the Jets defense. Size, Quickness, Speed, Power, and the ability to rush the QB and chase down running backs in the open field. So far out of Jenkins, Pace and Gholston, it looks like we have 3 perfect players to fit this 3-4 Defense interms of size and weight. And we all know what we have in David Harris, a true 3-4 MLB, So lets just say we have 4 solid players in our Front 7 for this 3-4 Defense. With players like Revis, Miller and Rhodes in the secondary, I think this Jets 3-4 Defense can be pretty special in 08 if players like Coleman, Ellis, Barton, Thomas, and Elam can all play thier roles on the field. Lets not forget that we can also switch from the 3-4 to the 4-3 on any given down with Jenkins and S.Pouha as our DT's with Bryan Thomas and Gholton rushing from the Ends with Harris as our 4-3 MLB along with Barton and Pace on the outside I just feel that this Jets defense finially has the players to fit the positions for the 1st time under this Mangini era, Im just wondering what everyone is feeling as of right now about this Defense... Me, Im pretty pumped up
The D is what has me excited for the season. The OL additions were nice but until the QB situation is sorted out I feel like the O will move along in baby steps. If the D clicks is could be very formidable this season.
Yeah, I love the offseason additions for this Jets offense with players like Faneca, Woody and Richardson all helping Thomas Jones and Leon Washington in the Run game, we added a play making tight end by the name of Keller who can stretch the field and this will be Kellen's 2nd year as the starting QB... But still, we have alot of questions about the Quaterbacks and thats never a good thing, thats why I think its important that this Jets defense can become a top defense if we plan on going far. But I really think this Offense can be a smash-mouth type of team, control the clock and keep the defensive players fresh with energy to make the tough plays late in the game
Really interesting thread, man. Thanks for posting your thoughts. I think you're right on. As someone else said above, Jenkins is 360 (+?), so we possibly have the largest NT in the NFL right now. But the thing that impresses me about Jenkins is, from everything I've read about him and seen in interviews this spring, this guy is ON FIRE to show everyone what he can do. THAT is the really impressive thing about this monster... that he still has the fire and has something to prove. It all starts with the line and specifically, the NT. It starts at the center and moves outward, because if they have to double-cover Jenkins it makes for all kinds of exploitation on both ends. I really can't wait to get to TC and see what this guy looks like in our lineup.
the defense can be anywhere from very good to very bad. The defense is full of IF's, and unproven guys that the CS is really banking on. Can Jenkins make the adjustment to 3-4 NT and succeed? I know he has the size, but he's never played in the 3-4 and size isnt everything. Can Calvin Pace prove he is worth the money? He got paid big bucks for a pretty good season in Arizona but he really has to produce more. Can Gholston become a force as a pass rusher? He was the sixth overall selection and is huge for this defense to succeed. He is a rookie who does not have the greatest of football skills, but has the physical talent to succeed. Will the Jets have a competent second corner? They don't need a great one, but they need a decent one. Who will play FS? Abram Elam showed major deficiencies in the passing game and is not a very polished football player. If a majority of the answers to those questions is yes, then the jets should have a pretty good defense.
the major question marks i see on the defense are de and 2nd corner. de is not a HUGE issue but if justin miller can step up and man that second corner spot i think it will be a huge lift for this defense. i am still a little concerned with elam but i think he is sufficient for that spot at this point. i really dont have any concern about lb right now, there is a stable of guys there that can all do a pretty decent job, to a great job, there are questions though so we will have to wait and see. either way that unit appears to be very formidable for this year.
The major question on our defense is Bob Sutton. I hate to burst the feel good bubble - but this guy flat out sucks. If we have another horrible start I will lose confidence in Mangini as being a competent man at the top. It's up to him to either require Sutton to perform up to expectations or take over the job completely. If we have to wait until the bye again to see results from the retooled defense then it was all for naught.
I agree with that, let's hope it's closer to the schemes and play-calling we've seen at the end of the last 2 seasons rather than the beginning. Now, all the measurables are there on defense but I really want to see if Jenkins can really hold down the middle and the LBs can live up to the hype. Everyone is talking the talk and I especially like what I am hearing from and about Jenkins, but it's still too early for me to get too excited. If everyone plays as expected I think this defense will be top 10 easily, regardless of the #2 CB. A good pass rush more than makes up for an average secondary.
they have the potential to be very good. as for how it will work out remains to be seen, but im confident with this defense heading into the season and excited to see what they can bring to the table. the offense on the other hand...
I really like what the Jets did for the D this year, particularly the Jenkins signing. Somethings to think about 1) If much of Mangini's reputation is based on the success of the Patriots D (while he was a Pats coordinator) and the Pats were stealing signals and thus had a HUGE advantage during games, then is it reasonable to say that Mangini's reputation is not credible as well? 2) And for that matter, are the Jets bying into the "Patriots System" which in all effect is really a sham since it was based on the video taped signals of the opponents? I always wondered how the Patriots were able to find so many players that were on the field "geniuses" like Vrabel and Brusci ... players who always seemed to be Johnny on the Spot despite the fact they were not that physically gifted. Now we know, they weren't, they just cheated.
They were only stealing teams' defensive signals, so it was only the offense getting the benefit. Their D was legit.
I think we may see a slow start, since we have alot of new faces in such crucial spots(Pace at strongside, BT/Gholston at weakside, Jenkins at NT, etc)..it'll take time for them all to develop cchemistry/timing and also to fuilly grasp the scheme. Even during the slow start it should be better than at any point last season, as we are no longer undersized or undermanned-specifically at the point of attack. W/ that said, this is a very young unit and I expect this to develop into an elite unit long term. Short term: It may take half a season.
That's not true. . .they def'n stole audible information on the offense to benefit there defense. Still, that isn't to say the pats d isn't good. The front 3 in there 3-4 is one of the best in the game. They used to have a good secondary and veteran savvy LB core...we'll see how all that works this season though. Couldn't help but think of all the RaiderJoe with the first post. He always proved his point by pointing out size and 40 times and look how they turned out? I'm not going to sit here and say it doesn't matter, and it is nice to see that we actually have the personnel to do what we want right now, but we don't know what gholston is capable of at this level and I think he might have a little time adjusting since he really doesn't have a wide variety of moves to use to rush the passer. Pace I have more confidence in being that I watched him play some...but if he pulls a Bryan Thomas what does it matter.... Jenkins technically has the size and strength and just as importantly the mindset needed to be a great 3-4, I'm looking forward to seeing how more effective we are with a space eater up front. It does suck that we have a gaping hole at no.2 corner. Let's hope Miller finally lives up to his potential. If he doesn't we could be in a fair amount of trouble there. All in all, if we jell together fast enough we could have a defense that can play at a really high level. Alot of things have to go right for us though, and Sutton is going to have to be a better DC at the beginning of the season for a change; but if all that happens I think we can be a top 7 defense in the NFL.
i think the players are in place and as long as they gel, everything should be A-OK there. however, i think Mangini needs to take more control of the scheming and playcalling because i just don't see Sutton as a solid DC. hopefully, Mangini will be wired into Harris' and/or Rhodes' helmets and take more of the reigns from Sutton.
