There are others that share this take on it, sometimes including me. Part of the thinking is that Mangini made a mistake last year announcing the starter in the off season, and to do so again, this time picking Clemens, was just something he was not prepared to do, and to be made to look foolish again. In that connection Clemens, the argument goes, SHOULD be able to show he's better in camp, and then Mangini can proceed accordingly. The second consideration is that Chad Fans would be screaming all off season. They will still scream if and when Mangini does the right thing, but it will occur in the context of leading up to the beginning of the season, and all that hoopla. It will be less corrosive and for a shorter period of time. While that all makes sense, the part of it that makes me worry nonetheless is that Mangini in the past has stuck with Pennington too long, and seems sometimes to be very much like Chad Fans, as if he is one himself. I also am left to wonder how tight Tannenbaum and Mangini are on this issue. While Tanny would seem to have a vested interest in seeing Clemens succeed, I am not sure Mangini feels that interest equally. Plus we are talking about the Jets, so to assume things will go right is always a risky proposition.
I just wish Mangini would make a decision already. Why put his whole team through this? If everyone knew that Kellens is going to be the QB then they can adjust the system and how they play/block to suit his skillset. Yes there's always the chance of injury forcing CP back into the lineup but you can't plan for that scenario like its going to be a definite. Mangini has to put in some constants somewhere.
I agree with these points, and there is certainly a cost as you point out to going with a contest. But, I also expect the playbook they will come up with will have much more of a slant to Clemens's skills, meaning someone who does not throw like a girl. I also understand why Mangini is going the contest route, as I discussed above.
The debate is relevent, but pointless in my opinion. Does everyone think we have upgraded our OL that much since last year? I realize we have upgraded, but I don't feel our line is anything near to good/great. I have a feeling we will struggle on offense yet again because of our line, and lack of depth. So this QB issue could very well be a none issue. I guess we should atleast be able to see something come from this upgrade, but I just don't see much coming from it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I kind of feel the same way. I like the Faneca signing a lot more than I did at first but I'm not sure about Woody. I think the right side of the line is still going to be a liability and our depth simply sucks.
Here is a question to all the Clemens defenders. If Kellen ranked 33rd, 31st, and 33rd in the league, and did not have 1 TD in the last 2 minutes of any halves, how do all of you attribute the 3 wins the Jets had to Kellen? It seems to me they won in spite of Kellen. All I here is how good Kellen is at the 2 minute drill and how he won 3 games. Take away Miami, and he beat KC, which he was by far the worst player on the field, and Pitt. I the Pitt game, Clemens was 14/31, 162 yds, 1 TD, and 1 INT. If you take away the flea flicker, which he underthrew and ended Coles season, he had 106 yds and his TD was a 1 yard flip to Baker after the flea flicker. So please tell me what he did after the first 3 minutes of the game. 12/29 106 yds, 0TD, and 1INT. I can clearly see how HE won this game. Don't let your hatred for Chad cover up how god awful he was last year. If you think this competition is a smoke screen, you guys are nuts. There is no way that they go into this season without Chad on the roster.
Clemens was awful last season. I can't argue that. What I will say is that the team got progressively worse as the season went on, as we basically ran offensive line and receiver tryouts for the latter half of the year, something Pennington didn't have to deal with as much. Pennington also would not take any chances at all down the field, and every time he tried to lead a comeback, he just would get picked off throwing down the sideline because teams knew he was physically or mentally incapable of making some plays, so they would just sit on the routes they knew he would make, and since he didn't have the velocity, his throws were easy to jump. The biggest defense of Kellen Clemens is that we know what we have in Chad Pennington. Sure, he'd look better behind a real offensive line, but even then, he is at best an average to below average starting quarterback. Shouldn't we hope for more? The one time Clemens played when the team still thought it compete, he played great against Baltimore. Plus, he clearly outplayed Pennington in preseason play, if that can be used as a judge. Last year wasn't impressive by any stretch, but you can't give up on Clemens because of it.
As bad as he was Chad was worse. The competition IS a smoke screen. Don't let your love of Pennington cover up how awful he was.
Your post right here is why nobody who is on the fence will be convinced about Chad. It's nothing but stats. Nothing. But there's sure some stats, because at least they end up in Chad's favor. Stats are all a football analyst can come up with for Chad. For years it was that Chad never threw an INT in the red zone. For years it was his completion percentage. The reason so many people have bailed on Chad is because they don't buy the stats anymore. You can have great stats and your team can lose miserably. For years I read the expression 'Chad just wins games' and believed it. Until the only stat that mattered... WINS... didn't support the argment. Talk about the actual play on the field or your argument is a joke. And I'm not talking about the occasional white buffalo 40 yard pass every 4 games, or the bafflingly out-of-character rope-across-the-middle pass that no one expected and you wrote down in your diary as 'the thing I'll shut the Chad haters up with.' I am talking about the complete career product. Because it is sad. Just like your argument. Don't worry, man. I have been where you are. I just don't feel like as much of a fool as you will once you realize the truth.
Amen to that. It hurt when I realized our Franchise QB is now done in terms of being a starter and is only a half-decent backup/mentor to young QBs. But once its realized, it doesn't hurt for very long - 3 minutes.
The defense of Clemens is he has a great release and a live NFL arm. We don't have another player on our team with a live NFL arm. Add in that he has one of the best releases in the game and maybe we have a QB capable of being a weapon on the field and turning our O into something more than moving the chains and failing to score? It still takes great talent to win big in this league and Clemens showed some great talent while sucking. Chad shows great moxie while sucking. Let the coaching staff earn their keep by developing the talent. The competition is just another way to hold it back while over paying for moxie that isn't taking the Jets anywhere anytime soon. While Clemens may not have been responsible for beating anyone last year, Chad was responsible for lossing a ton of games last year with his pick 6 heriocs for the opposition. Chad beat Miami last year, Miami, the worst team in football that's who Chad beat. 6 Million for beating the 2007 Miami Dolphins is a waste of cap space. And I also believe Chad will start and Clemens will take over and this year will be worse because of it.
Clemens did show "potential" while sucking, you're right. I don't believe we are holding this competition to cover up a flawed concept in Chad's cap numbers VS skill. I know you feel that with someone making that kind've money should/will start on this basis alone, but I think that is a terrible excuse to play someone that you know will only hurt your long term goals. I just don't buy it.
What are you basing this model on, WB? Chad's salary? The CS's fear of looking bad? Sheer experience? The CS came out during the combine last offseason and announced Chad as the starter. Then they embarrassingly pulled him mid-season when things were ugly. Chad is a champion when he wears a red jersey, and I am sure he is going to look good during this preseason, because he is great at preparation. But the goods do not prove that ad campaign in this situation. You have said many times that you believe Mangini is a good coach. Does that mean that you think Chad is the best man for the job? I also happen to think Mangini has done a good job under circumstances within and without his control. And I don't think Chad has a prayer of winning this starting job.
Chad is the best man for a back up job in the NFL at minimal salary and not on the Jets while Chad transition to either coaching or TV. I think Mangini has shown the potential to be a really good coach although last year the staff did a terrible job in the way they handled the entire O and in preparing Clemens as the future for the team. Chad is clearly not fit to be the starting QB and Clemens while raw and unproven clearly should be given the job and the reps to get him up to speed. If Clemens isn't the guy we need to find out now. Having a competition at QB is about as stupid as it gets. If Clemens wins it, it just sets him back from the work he needs.
I didn't like Clemens pocket presence last year, but he does have good ability and did show flashes that he can be special. With his arm strenth, mobility, and smarts he reminds me of a poor mans Brett Favre. Clemens look like a mobile gunslinger at times! He just needs to understand what defenses are trying to do to him and improve his accuracy and he could be pretty damn good. If not, Penny will start!!
I disagree. Woody isn't a bad player by any means, and our left side of the line was a bigger problem than the right side last season. Moore and Woody aren't the ideals at RG and RT...but since we don't have a Andrews/Runyan type combo we'll probably make do. Our depth will be an issue unless we fix it this summer.
I don't understand why people think it's such a given Chad will outperform Clemens in the preseason because of his preparation and other things. Doesn't anybody remember last year? The Minnesota Chad pick-6 debacle? And does anyone remember how good Clemens looked? It seems so far away. And abyz, while you're right the wins stopped adding up for Chad, it was only for one year, and nobody was going to win at QB behind that offensive line. I think Chad is better than he showed last year, but if this team wants to take a big step forward, Clemens needs to take a big step forward. Chad's the perfect backup quarterback, he can come in, provide a spark, some leadership, and some moxie, but he's too limited physically that he gets exposed.
Chrebet, Santana Moss, Laveranues Coles, Chris Baker, the list of receivers who have had real injury trouble while catching Chad's slow toss lobs is not short. We all saw Coles get his bell run multiple times over the last couple of seasons and they weren't the show-stopper slants across the middle that met a safety going the other way in a hurry, they were the ball floating up high while a defensive back's elbow or helmet pr shoulderpad finds the back of Cole's helmet type plays. This is not up for debate at this point. Chad routinely subjects his receivers to brutal hits when he puts the ball in the right place at the wrong velocity and they get hung out to dry waiting for it to come down. Anybody who sees something different happening isn't watching very closely.
