If I had posted I wanted to move ellis, I'd have a bag on my head as well. Way to hide your shame there. Our D-line is actually starting to resemble a 3-4 front now that we have Jenkins, why go and screw it all up now?
Whoever said we can't expect a replacement for Ellis in the draft . . . Dre Moore. Unless the 49ers take him at the end of the first or the Dolphins in the beginning of the second, we can grab him with our second, which will be the steal of the century. The man is built to play 3-4 End. Ellis is a solid 3-4 End. Not good, not great, not bad or below average by any means. He plays the game well but I would rather have someone else in on running downs. He is also the biggest clutch player I have ever seen, always coming up with a big play when the team needs it. On top of that, he is a team leader and a great mentor to younger players. I want him on this team but not at 3-4.5 million per year. 2-3 million per year, okay. But when he gets 4.65M in salary in 2009? No one can tell me that that is justified, unless you're talking loyalty money, which he rightly deserves, but shit, that's still a decent chunk of green going to just one man in green.
Ellis is a football player. He comes hard on every play and plays through injury. He is good enough against the run, and is very good at collapsing the pocket on passing plays. Sadly, Robertson up the middle basically negated their efforts. Ellis and Coleman are very similar and will make nice bookends for Jenkins. Both of them are solid, not average. Ellis is the type of guy I'd love to see retire as a Jet.
Pete Kendall = NOT a mistake. Locker room cancer on the downside of his career bitching about living up to the contract he signed less that 12 months earlier. The mistake was not finding an adequate replacement, but F Kendall. Ellis for a 3rd rounder would be as big a mistake as trading 2 1sts and a 4th to move up and grab Robertson.
Ellis has to stay. That would be a step backwards in trading him off. I'm willing to bet his production jumps dramatically this coming year.
In regards to Ellis, I have always been under the impression that he is praised blindly by the majority of fans. He is rarely scrutinized or called out for his lackluster play. Its assumed that he's good when he's really no better than ordinary. That said, we can't continue to completely blow up our veteran core. He stays. However, the time to find his replacement is now.
I think Ellis will have a very big year this year since their defense will actually be filled out. I think he is a great 3-4 end and you will not find anyone in the draft in third round that is going to outplay him this year.
think back to tom brady sitting in the mud in a home loss to the jets.....it was ellis that put him there.
Thank God someone other than me realizes this. Ellis is not a liability in this defense, his contract is a bit fat but who's isn't on our team now hahaha
Ellis isn't a great 3/4 DE, he's a tweener, and the league has gotten a little bigger since he came into it 8 years ago. That doesn't mean he isn't a decent enough starter, it just means that the production hasn't been quite as much there. He was a 4-3 DE, 3-4 DT tweener, he can play the 3-4 DE spot pretty well. He's not great at carrying a line, but if he has help on the defensive side, he'll look better.
ellis is very unsung and has been a quiet team player his whole career here. from the weight gains to losses to move from end to dt and back again to the no complaints attitude he has brought as well. you never hear boo from this guy and while he doesnt get 20 sacks a year he has always been pretty solid.
If we are ever to trade Ellis, can we at least do it on the downswing of his career? He's still got alot left in his tank, and i dont want to see it leave anytime soon. When his skills diminish, then let him go.
Quack, do you really think that Dre Moore can just step in and start playing Ellis' position in Mangini's 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid defense on day one? I don't think so. The reason is that there is a lot of complexity to this defense, that has to be not only understood as far as the player's own responsibilities are concerned. Each player must know what every other player he is collaborated with is going to do on each call. This is not just a playbook issue. It is a getting-to-know-you process -- not just in coaching, not just in practice, but under fire when the unexpected has to be accounted for right now. A lot of the guys on this "message board" don't keep the visualization of the changing nature of the Mangini defense during the course of the last two years. The players we have now have had a lot to do with what has evolved, and a lot of what is successful. Dre Moore is a newbie, as a rookie he will not be trusted until he is vetted in a number of trials by fire. He will barely be able to handle the abc's of the position in year one. It will take a couple of years before he has the same flexibility and intelligent, creative input into the defense as Ellis has now. The DL / LB combination is a complex two-module integrating unit as much as the OL is. This is not about a self-contained resume coming in from college and getting plugged in and doing it just like he did it at Tennessee for the last 3.5 years. It just isn't like that at all.
On the flip side, when you're getting paid millions, is it that hard to just shut your mouth and do your job? I don't see why praising someone for doing there job happens. I also don't see why criticizing someone who does their job well, but not superstar well, is so prevalent. Ellis is Ellis and he does what he needs to do well. No complaints here.
Of course he isn't an instant replacement: I never said that and you can never expect any rookie to play like a veteran. I also know that this defense has been getting run more and more by the players - Hell, the stand-up formation has been mentioned as a players idea and not coming from the coaches. Dre Moore is a rather raw prospect, having had limited high school experience, but he has all of the physical tools to be an impact player at the position. You don't have to lead the defense to play in it. By your philosophy, we wouldn't be able to play any rookies over veterans. What the hell is this, Herm time? Experience counts, but it isn't everything. And didn't we draft Ellis in 2000? Why 3.5 years?
