I Think We Need To Get Into The Free Agency Game More And Pull Some Vets To Show Our Young Guys A Thing Or Two.
As much as I like Pennington as a person, I dunno. It seems like you should be better than you were last year. I wouldn't call last season a fluke. Another one of those mystifying things.
You don't need top 5 talent, as a team we are in the top 10-15 area as far as talent but we are playing like a bottom 5 team in terms of talent. Talent is not why we are losing this year. Some of our good talent is underachieving coupled w/ a bad year from an inexperienced coaching staff leads us to such a poor record but we have talent and w/ a few nice moves along w/ Clemens developing or Chad getting it back and we'll be in the playoff hunt again next year.
The problem with this team is that they are not even close to being good anywhere. This is what I find so frustrating about the rookies running this team. They started rebuilding the offense in '06 and then stopped in '07 and started rebuilding the defense. You can be a decent team if you have either a good offense or defense. We have neither. I hope this offseason they either spend the money and draft picks to finish one or the other (hopefully the defense).
The talent level is okay and getting better. The problem is the talent of what should be the veteran core of any competitive team is very weak to none existent right now. That talent was used up by the last regime. Clemens, DBrick, Harris, Mangold, Cotch, Hobson, Moore, Rhodes, Washington, Smith, Thomas and maybe Pouha, Bender and Stuckey are going to be the core players to build around. Most of them are very young, the rest of the team is pretty much replacable and will be. A couple of other guys are better than just hold the fort players but not by much. This team is a big project but we have some very good young talent and the key is going to be Clemens and building the DL. We had a run since 97 and 98 and 02 was the closest we came to having an elite team that could compete against the best in the league. The team basically fell apart during the 04 off season coupled with the injury to Chad in 04. We didn't even begin to rebuild until after 05 with the exception of a couple of draft picks of which Rhodes was the only one showing any promise before Mangini took over. The positive is the league in general isn't that talented, the negative is there are 2 or 3 teams which are miles better than us in talent.
defensive line: shaun ellis in a 4-3 would be dominating. linebackers: vilma would be top 5 in a 4-3 secondary: kerry rhodes is a top 10 safety offensive line: mangold is a top 10 center wide recievers: coles, cotchery with the right QB can be a top 10 tandem runningbacks: with a good left guard and a better right tackle, jones and washington can be a top 10 tandem. this team can be a playoff team if we had started the season as a 4-3 defense and had pete kendall, or a guard his level or better.
It was a maybe, he seems to be getting more playing time and while I don't think he is the answer at NT he looks to be improving and will be part of the rotation on the DL for the next several years.
Beaman stated: "Exactly... Most teams have 1-3 players, tops who are in the top 5 in the league at their positions...." Sorry but the numbers say there are much more than that per team. You have 11 offense, 11 defense, a punter, a place kicker, a punt returner, a KO returner. That's 26 positions with 5 at each position or 130 total players. Since there are 32 teams, 130 divided by 32 = 4+ players per team. Since the average is a little more than 4, MOST teams probably have 4 or more. Since some teams (like our JETS) have none or 1 or 2 players who may qualify, there are many teams with more than 4 who do. Washington is a top 5 (currently 1st or4th depending on what stat is used) KO return man. Other than that Rhodes and Coles or Cotchery are the closest thing the JETS have. We have 1 top 5 while the Patriots and Colts probably have 7 or 8 each.
At this point the Jets have below average starters at LG, RG, RT, TE (I like Baker but his numbers are below average), QB (Clemens is obviously below average at this point, albeit we're hopeful he's quite good), LDE, NT, RDE, LOLB, LILB, ROLB, RCB and FS. That's 13 out of 22 starters that are below average. Ok, now throw in the people who are clearly young and talented but not definably above-average yet (Revis, Harris and D'Brick) and you have 16 out of 22 positions that are average or below. Anybody who thinks this team is just a few players away from being good really hasn't absorbed the reality of what being good in the NFL really means. Being good means that on a game in and game out basis you are competitive with all comers even if slight underdogs when a powerhouse comes into town. The Jets have not had that state of affairs since at least 2004 and probably not really since 1998.
But you have to take into consideration that teams like New England, San Diego and Indianapolis are so stacked with talent, that it takes away from the great majority of teams.... QB: Brady (NE), Manning (IND), Brees (NO), Palmer (CIN), Favre (GB) RB: Tomlinson (SD), Peterson (MIN), Parker (PIT), Westbrook (PHI), McGahee (BAL) WR: Moss (NE), Johnson (CIN), Edwards (CLE), Wayne (IND), Burress (NYG) TE: Gates (SD), Gonzalez (KC), Witten (DAL), Clarke (IND), Winslow (CLE) T: Ogden (BAL), Jones (SEA), Samuels (WAS), Pace (STL), Thomas (PHI) G: Faneca (PIT), Andrews (PHI), Hutchinson (MIN), Mankins (NE), Brown (CHI) C: Kreutz (CHI), Hardwick (SD), Saturday (IND), Birk (MIN), Mangold (NYJ) DE: Taylor (MIA), Freeney (IND), Peppers (CAR), Umenyiora (NYG), Allen (KC) I/MLB: Urlacher (CHI), Tatupu (SEA), Ryans (HOU), Barnett (GB), Pierce (NYG) OLB: Merriman (SD), Vrabel (NE), Peterson (SEA), Philips (SD), Ware (DAL) CB: Bailey (DEN), Samuel (NE), Hall (ATL), Clements (SF), McAlister (BAL) S: Reed (BAL), Polamalu (PIT), Taylor (WAS), Sanders (IND), McCree (SD) DT: Haynesworth (TEN), Wilfork (NE), Harris (CHI), Stroud (JAX), Dockett (AZ) K: Vinitieri (IND), Rackers (AZ), Brown (HOU), Reed (PIT), Scobee (JAX) P: Lechler (OAK), Player (CLE), McBriar (DAL), Moorman (BUF), Maynard (CHI) KR: Hester (CHI), Washington (NYJ), Cribbs (CLE), Figurs (BAL), McGee (BUF) PR: Hester (CHI), Hall (STL), Parrish (BUF), Crayton (DAL), Burleson (SEA) Now, obviously any of those can be debated, but that;s just a rough list I put together... According to these estimates, since none of this stuff is exact anyway, obviously teams like NE, IND, SD, CHI, BAL, and oddly, CLE stand out.... But while these few teams are completely stacked with talent, most of the other teams are greatly underrepresented there... You have very talented teams (CHI, TEN) not winning too many ballgames, while you have not-as-talented teams, albeit by this inaccurate scale only (GB, DAL) winning a lot of games... Now, this is where the difference between having individuals with top 5 talent, and having a good core of solid players comes into play... Sure, some teams are going to win because they have all the best players in the league.. But, generally, historically, the best teams have excellent coaching, and a bunch of guys who are above average, not fantastic... You need role players to succeed.... You can have a great team with one top 5 player, and 15-20 guys who are in the top half of the league.... In fact, that seems like the better way to judge talent, as so few teams are stacked with top-5 talent
Yeah I know they have a good record, but they're not impressing me at all.... They actually remind me of a slightly better version of us, where a lot of the role players have just stepped up... I guess they've got a lot of unsung heroes along that OL we don't hear about, because, without that running game, they might very well be winless..... But yeah, I agree, that was a poor example....
The Titans lines are the strength of the team right now. The lines are the most important part of competing at a high level in the NFL. There has never been a team that competed well over a multi-season span with weak lines.
Oh absolutely, I agree.... And that reminds me, I don't know how much Haynesworth weighs, but after watching that defense two or three times this year, he's absolutely the one FA-to-be who I want brought in this coming offseason... Maybe it's because it's a contract year, but that guy is as disruptive a force as I've seen this year....
He'll be franchised if the Titans don't resign him in the meantime. Jeff Fisher has an excellent football mind and he'll pay whatever he needs to pay to sign the bedrock on his defensive line.
This is a good discussion but the reality is that the talent level is better than it was last year when the team won 10 games. So talent is not the issue here.
