3-4. We're already changing over and the versatility is great. We need to get personnel for the d-line in order to play it well, though...
I can't vote on this without knowing the context. Are we assuming that Mangini is here for 2 or 3 more seasons? If so then the Jets need to dump Vilma, D-Rob, Hobson and probably Barton and stay in the 3-4. They need to do all of this by next season to have any hope that it works. If we're assuming a new regime next year, or even the year after then they need to hold onto Vilma at least so they have not given up yet another potential all-pro (Hugh Douglas, James Farrior, John Abraham) as a casualty of a formation switch. the Jets run D and pass rush are bad because their best players in the front 7 keep getting made ineffective and then run out of town by formation switches. Can't do that every 4 years and stay competitive in the NFL.
I feel like the 3-4 was a passing fad. It has become more and more common, and it's not confusing offensive coordinators as much any more. I'd rather run a Tampa 2 or a New England style hybrid defence that doesn't tie itself to a particular scheme. Of course, for these you need a lot of talent and versatile personnel, as well as a defensive genius to make it work...but that's Eric's M.O., right?
The 3-4 isn't a great defense against a vertical passing game. It's designed to stop the run oriented short passing attacks like the west coast offense. With Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and Brett Favre and Tony Romo and Carson Palmer and Donovan McNabb representing the dominant passing styles of the day the 3-4 really is a break-even defense at the moment. If it's a very good 3-4, like New England or Pittsburgh's then it's worthwhile. Most of the teams running a 3-4 would probably be better off in a 4-3 at this point. Cleveland has two opponents in the division (Pittsburgh and Cincinnati) that are very vertical on offense and they're just taking losses because Crennel knows the 3-4 but not the context in which it is weak.
Since our goal is to surpass New England anyway, we need to get much, much better overall since they increased the gap, keeping our talent as is will not cut it no matter what we do, our dline as is won't cut it with a 3-4 or a 4-3, while switching back to the 4-3 may provide a bandaid, I think long term it will do more harm than good to continue jumping from system to system likewise it won't solve are problem right now. We had a small taste last year of what our 3-4 can look like when effective and even though it was against bad competition it showed that we were capable of doing it well, I think as of right now we are suffering the growing pains of the transition from the Tampa 2 to our goal now, there is no point to suffer to this extent just for it to go in vain to prey to have 2004 again when our main competition has already surpassed that long ago, we should keep the 3-4, build from inside-out and don't look back.
Great point- a lot of the benefits of the 3-4 resurgence in the 90s/00s was that many QBs hadn't been exposed to it at any level. Now with a bunch of teams (NYJ, NE, CLE, ARZ, PIT, SD at least) showing it, its part of the learning process for any team. The scheme is all about versatility i.e. LB that can become down lineman as well, and the Jets simply don't have it. The big difference between the 4-3 and 3-4 is that IMHO the 3-4 is absolutely worthless if you don't have a strong D-line. A 4-3 can cover up some of the deficiencies on the line with strong play from the linebackers. A poor D-line in a 3-4 nullifies the linebackers in a 3-4. I voted for the 4-3. The only way I would endorse the 3-4 for next season is if: A) The Jets break the bank for Terrell Suggs-this guy is better than A. Thomas and is absolutely the ideal 3-4 OLB. He's still young and would be a marked improvement over ANYBODY we have lined up at OLB. B) Draft a big body, for crying out loud. The only 3-4 NT we have drafted on the roster were drafted when we were still using the 4-3. Think about that for a second. Easier said than done obviously, but there needs to be some effort on this end via trades or whatever if Mangenius is committed to the 3-4. I think D-Rob would be explosive as a defensive end and is far better suited to that role. He's a lot faster than people give him credit for and would consume blockers as an end.
I think you play to your strength. If that's 4-3 right now, then that's what we should be doing. And why can't we try to fool teams by switching it up? Oops I forgot, we can't fool anybody, anyway They know what we're doing every friggin' play!
i think the jets should go to the 3-4, but making the change without the personnel to make the switch just wasnt smart. look a tomlin and the steelers, the steelers do a pretty good job of running the 3-4 but tomlin comes from a 4-3 background. tomlin sticks with what is working, but is drafting players that will eventually fit his scheme and not force players into positions that they are not suited for so that he can run his system
they're loaded with 4-3 players. ellis, robertson, moseley, and thomas up front. hobson, vilma, and barton as the lb's with harris backing up vilma. harris can move outside once barton leaves.
I think we should really go back to the 4-3 utilizing the talent we have. I really think that our D as a 3-4 may be as many as 5 or 6 players away from being good. In terms of the 4-3, our personnel is better suited to the 4-3 which has been said and beaten to death on this board. If our Defensive line consistanly gets pushed 3 yards down field on every running play, and sacks, pressures, ints are significantly down from prior years; it has to tell you something........................Our current scheme lacks mass and weight at the point of attack. We need DRob and Pouha in the middle and spell with Mosley. I think this year has really exposed our team for what they are...................trying to be more than they really are................ Every week this year, look at how successful the opposition is at ruinning off of guard. Why? The 3-4 and lack of weight in the middle. All you have to do is push one guy out of the way and you are in our Defensive Backfield. They have our Linebackers trying to plug up the holes, but 235 - 255 pound guys going up against 300+ guys doesn't bode well. Drop the 3-4 at least for this year. We do not have that monster big guy in the middle to anchor the entire scheme. The other fact is those type of guys are very, very hard to come by. Going back to the 4-3 improves us now and opens up greater options in the future and may utlimately reduce the need for replacing multiple players. I also think we are too light in the linebacker department for the 3-4. We are built more for speed rather than size. Again, the 4-3 immediately makes us better. I have not said this yet, but I will say it now. If Mangini does not throw the 3-4 away for this year and maybe even the next couple of years until we appear ready for it, than we will continue to lose this year, regardless of who is QBing, and we will lose next year as well. Mangini will likely get a pass this year if he has appeared to rectify things and we somehow get to 7-9; if we continue as bad as we have been and nothing new is tried and we go 3-13 or 4-12 I think he has put his neck very far into the noose. He may still be back, but another sub-par year after that and Mangini will be gone. Why? This year, we have better than 3-13 or 4-12 talent on the team right now - no excuses. Next year, presumeably we will be better, unless we trade all our draft picks away on a punter or something hairbrained like that or do absolutley zero in FA when there are clear glaring needs and cap space to move on. Mark my words, the 3-4 will end Mangini's career here if he does not wake up and realize he has to go in a different direction.
wow, dead even after my vote. 4-3, hands down. Or defense is getting hoodwinked this year. That's right, HOODWINKED!
4-3, but we still need some big changes, even with that. We need a pass rusher either way. We need a nose tackle either in place of Robertson, or next to him. Bryan Thomas can't really play in the 4-3, though he's showing this year that last year was a fluke, and he can't really play in the 3-4 anyway. I think as long as Vilma is on this team we need to be in a 4-3, and if he's not on this team, we better not just be dumping him, we better get some big value.
You play what your players are capable of playing. There is no long term, short term considerations at all. I've said this before. The 3-4 might be great but not with the players we have now. What's the point of teaching these people the 3-4 when none of them will still be here when we can actually get it done. Play the 4-3 now and switch to the 3-4 when it it plausible.
We don't have guys on the line or at LB who can rush the passer. We need a guy like Abe who isn't a head case who can be a wrecking machine at the point of attack. If we can get that guy at DE by all means go to a 4/3. Untill we have that guy, we have to over protect against the pass and whether we play a 4/3 or a 3/4 we will always be on our heals against the run. If you can rush the QB without blitzing, you can be much more stout against the run. We can't and that's the real problem.
