Well the Colts run defense played well in the playoffs. If that didn't happen, they don't win the superbowl. Manning got them to the playoffs largely by himself, but he didn't win a superbowl by himself. Chad got the Jets to the playoffs this year without a running game or run defense. If Manning's defense hadn't played so well in the first 2 playoff games, everyone would still be calling him a choker. He turned it over 3 times against the Chiefs and was awful against the Ravens. He played well agains the Patriots and Bears, but without a good rush defense they don't even get there.
I don't know how many times this topic will rear its ugly head. I like to call these topics and threads: "Vampire Threads" cause they will never die no matter how many times it's argued. Chad is a game manager, not a dominator. That being said, he can win a SB as long as he has dominate talent surrounding him. He cannot take over a game. He cannot dominate. He's damn good at managing a game. He will not bring you back from 15pts or more down. He's Chad Pennington for better or worse. Love or hate him, you're not ever gonna change him. It wouldn't surprise me that one day he'll luck up and win a SB. He'll never be a HOF Qb unless they lower the bar. He's not a legend. He's a Qb with limitations just like Jim Plunkett and that type that can win a SB as long as he has superior talent around him.
The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. The only reason this is even a topic is because PEOPLE OVERVALUE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION. It's very possible to win a Super Bowl with a not great QB. Football is the ultimate team game.
You should read the rules of the board again, this is a good way to get banned / suspended, especially when earlier you simply stated your intentions you were going to Spam the thread. Spamin aint allowed my friend... Ellis
Hm...that sucks. Still, I think the general idea behind my post is being ignored. The QB is as much as product of the system as the RB, the WRs, and so on. Montana was PERFECT for the West Coast. He is and was the ideal QB to have for a team running the West Coast offense. His success is as much as product of the system as it was his raw talent and brains. Honestly, there are very few game changing QBs, its why I have so much respect for Marino, Manning, and Brady. Those guys can and have carried their teams. Chad ain't one of those guys, but who cares? He just needs to make smart descisions and trust the rest of the team.
Asante Samuel's comments after the playoff game "He throws the ball kind of soft," Samuel said. "I was kind of timid a couple of times to go after it, but I knew if he kept throwing it out there, I was going to get it." Look at some of the better QB's in the league, its like men against boys when comparing arm strenghts. Chad doesnt have it and at 30 years old never will. look at Manning and Brady, they can zip it between LB"s and S to a TE, where as Chad would get picked off. They dont respect his arm, and people who try to argue that he can throw the long ball by referencing the same long td pass just further the point.
I haven't even read this thread but I'll leave you here with a simple answer: If Trent Dilfer or Rex Grossman can, anyone can. anyone
Super Bowl winning QB's: 1966 - Bart Starr (Hall of Fame) 1967 - Bart Starr (Hall of Fame) 1968 - Joe Namath (Hall of Fame) 1969 - Len Dawson (Hall of Fame) 1970 - Johny Unitas/Earl Morrall (Hallf of Fame/not) 1971 - Roger Staubach (Hall of Fame) 1972 - Bob Griese (Hall of Fame) 1973 - Bob Griese (Hall of Fame) 1974 - Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame) 1975 - Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame) 1976 - Ken Stabler (not) 1977 - Roger Staubach (Hall of Fame) 1978 - Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame) 1979 - Terry Bradshaw (Hallf of Fame) 1980 - Jim Plunkett (not) 1981 - Joe Montana (Hall of Fame) 1982 - Joe Theisman (not) 1983 - Jim Plunkett (not) 1984 - Joe Montana (Hall of Fame) 1985 - Jim McMahon (not) 1986 - Phil Simms (not) 1987 - Doug Williams (not) 1988 - Joe Montana (Hall of Fame) 1989 - Joe Montana (Hall of Fame) 1990 - Jeff Hostetler (not) 1991 - Mark Rypien (not) 1992 - Troy Aikman (Hall of Fame) 1993 - Troy Aikman (Hall of Fame) 1994 - Steve Young (Hall of Fame) 1995 - Troy Aikman (Hall of Fame) 1996 - Brett Favre (will be HoF) 1997 - John Elway (Hall of Fame) 1998 - John Elway (Hallf of Fame) 1999 - Kurt Warner (not) 2000 - Trent Dilfer (not) 2001 - Tom Brady (will be HoF) 2002 - Brad Johnson (not) 2003 - Tom Brady (will be HoF) 2004 - Tom Brady (will be HoF) 2005 - Ben Roethlisberger (no way to know right now) 2006 - Peyton Manning (will be HoF) So in summary there have been 41 Super Bowls played through 2006. In 28 of them a Hall of Fame caliber QB has lead his team to a win. Of the teams that did not have a Hall of Fame QB there is a single characteristic that dominates the stats, they all had great defenses, with most of them in the top 3 in the year they won and also over a several year period around that season. So it's pretty clear when you look at the Super Bowl that you either have a) a Hall of Fame QB or b) the best defense in football or very close to it if you want to win. One other interesting point as I looked at the stats. The Raiders have won 3 Super Bowls without a Hall of Fame QB. Stabler and Plunkett were on a similar plateau to people like Len Dawson and Terry Bradshaw stats-wise and yet the Al Davis-inspired loathing for the Raiders kept them from having any chance to be enshrined. I'm not arguing they should have been but Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he is the only multi-winning QB not in the Hall of Fame, and he did not have top defenses when he did it. I'm not sure anybody else not in the hall of fame has ever QB'd his teams to one win, let alone two without a top defense.
Yes, but alot of the guys we call HOF QBs are in the HOF because of their Super Bowl rings. There are very few Marino's...guys who never win the Super Bowl but are seen as great anyway.
I would say only go back to 1990 or so since it was a far different game then & probably the stats will show a more clearer results. Aikman 3 SBs, Brady 3 SBs Elway 2 SBs & Manning 1 SB & Favre so at least 10 of the 16 SBs played since 90 have been won by HOF QBs. I left out Big Ben since the jury is still out on him.
The results are pretty much the same from 1966-2006 (28 of 41) as from 1990-2006 (11 or 12 out of 17.) Of the 6 teams that have won without a Hall of Fame QB in the last 17 years this was their defensive standing in the season they won: 1990 Giants #1, 1991 Redskins #2, 1999 Rams #4, 2000 Ravens #1, 2002 Buccaneers #1, 2005 Steelers #3. That's pretty conclusive evidence. Build an entire defense to be the best or come up with a Hall of Fame Qb and win with just a good defense. And for those wondering - it was pretty commonplace for just a good defense to win in the 70's and 80's. You still had points allowed leaders winning frequently but you also had teams in the 8 to 13 slot win now and then. Recently the Broncos, Pats and Colts have all won without a top 5 defense. They all had a Hall of Fame QB though.
The difference being Dilfer and Grossman did not eat up as much of their teams salary cap. It is difficult to put elite talent around Chad the game manager when he is being paid like Chad the game breaker.
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he restructured his contract before coming back from the last injury.
I just realized in looking at this post that the 2 teams that did not have a #1 or #2 ranked defense in the last 17 years and did not have a Hall of Fame QB were both QB'd by guys who either might go to the Hall of Fame still (Roethlisberger) or who clearly had as good a season as any Hall of Fame QB ever produced (Warner.) That makes the argument even more compelling.
The pass was not errant and anyone with eyes and a decent memory and reason and knowledge of the game could tell you that. I believe that, in addition to memory cells, they also analyze your vision and rational mind and ability to learn when you get a good head-check.
He did but he still got paid the full bore and it still cost us the full cap hit. I believe he gets another large payment before 08 and another decission will have to be made prior to the season, maybe by both parties?
