He can't kick off. How can you take a kicker so high who can't kick off? Thanks for not reading my post. Regardless, we made a commitment to Nugent, and we can't afford to waste another roster spot. We'll have to live with the Nugent kickoffs.
Yes, and the net has more to do with the coverage team than the kicker. Only thing the kicker can do is kick it higher and hope for a lesser return.
He would be worth the $$$ for at least two games on the schedule and sometimes change is good for changes sake!
If you had a shot at vinateri in the second round but his kickoffs were slightly less than the league average you wouldn't take him? I'm pretty sure every GM in the country would not hesitate for a second at taking him. Besides, kickoffs have about 8 different factors...only one of which is leg strength. Westhoff calls mostly "kick rights" which requires much more accuracy and you lose distance. All of the times I have watched Mare he was given center kicks...which allow you to drive it more.
Instead of taking up a roster spot for a K/O specialist why not use the talent we already have. Big Ben "the Awesome Aussie" should be practicing Kick offs. He has the leg strength and could easily get us 12 touchbacks a year.Imho that's the way to go!
i would love to see olindo mare's stats vs the jets becasue tehy suck...he missed a field goal that woulda tied the game vs us during hte first miami game and i remember last year he shanked a 21 yarder vs us
duhhhhhhh. lol he's way to good a kicker to take minimum or be a kick off specialist. he's still one of the better kickers in the league and will have no trouble finding a job. i'll bet dallas is wishing they didn't sign that guy gramatica right about now.
Incorrectomundo! The net has JUST as much to do with hang time as it does with the coverage team. I don't know how many times I posted this before.... but Westoff said when we drafted Nugent that it was his hang time, not his distance that he liked. Nugent has never had a KO returned for a TD. His hang time DOES have a lot to do with that. Look at Rackers, the guy that has the longest KO leg in the NFL, and by far the most touchbacks. But, he kicks line drives, which doesn't allow the KO coverage team to get downfield. As a result, in 2005, he had 22 of 61 KO's go out of the end zone, but the average return was 31.5 and two were returned for TD's. In 2006, they told him to get more air under the ball. Result? Only 17 out of 75 KO's went for touchbacks, but the average return went down to 25.8 yards, and NO TD's. Yes, it would be nice if Nugent could kick the ball deeper and higher, but it isn't the issue so many want to make it out to be. Also, as someone mentioned, Westy often has Nugent kick to a spot, and that doesn't help his distance any. Rackers kicks the ball in the center of the field.... that buys him another five yards on the stat sheet. The kicker is just one part of the KO team. Kickers get singled out unfairly.... the way to gauge how good a TEAM is at KO's is too look at the opposition's starting field position. That's the bottom line, and what's important. Two years.... no KO's returned for a TD. Mare won't be cheap. You could get a kid out of collge, undrafted, that can kick longer than Mare anyway, for a lot less money. The PHINS still own his rights.... and are trying to trade him, but so far no takers, because teams like the Giants know he'll be released. Then, he would refuse to sign with a team just to do KO's. Forget Mare.
3 yards-- 80 kickoffs a year, 240 yards... Brad Smith had 164 yards rushing and receiving on the season, so yes, 3 yards per kickoff matters. Having 2 kickers on the roster would help much more than the 53rd man on the roster who gets 3 plays a year.
No, actually. It doesn't matter how high he kicks it, it's the coverage team that has to make the play. A kicker can make the job easier on his coverage team depending on how he kicks it, but the primary determinant of the length of a kickoff return is the quality of the kick coverage. A good way to judge the entirety of a kickoff team is the opponents's starting field position, yes. But that's not a good way to judge the actual KICKER.
We will agree to disagree. If a kickoff has enough hang time to allow the coverage team to penetrate the wedge before the returner has even caught the ball, the entire blocking scheme has been negated. That is how a kicker with good hang time can have a tremendous impact on return yardage. Distance on kickoffs is only part of how a kicker should be judged. Hang time and directional accuracy is JUST as important... and Westoff does't coach ST's to make fans happy with Nugent's numbers. He coaches for field position, and the average starting foeld position is largely affected by the kicker, kicking within a play call to where and how high to get the ball off. That includes squib kicks that are designed to keep the ball away from dangerous return men. I think you grossly over simplify the kickers role in all of this.... he is one of 11, and all 11 have to execute their assignments within the play call to make it work. Not giving any credit to Nugent for field position is not only biased, it's flat wrong. Westoff has said, in so many words, the same thing. I'll stick with his version.
I totally agree with you. I would be interested to see what John Hall's numbers were on KOs for Westoff. We can agree that he had a HUGE leg, but I'm not sure what his numbers were like off the top of my head. This is the reason why the hangtime on punts is such a big deal. It allows the coverage team to get down there. If a punter wanted, he could kick the hell out of it, but that would outkick the coverage and lead to a huge return.
I found Hall's KO numbers. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1705 Over the 6 years he was with the Jets he averaged 65.1 yards per KO. Nugent's average this year was 60.5. Over Hall's 6 years he averaged a 22.5 yard return per KO. Nugent's average this year was 21.2. Hall's average net yardage was 42.6 yards or a starting field position of the 27.4 yard line. Nugent's average net was 39.3 for a starting field position of the 30.7 yard line. The difference between the two in the presumably same special teams system was 3.3 yards.
mare isnt going to sign here just to kick off. the guy is a good kicker....hes much better than just a KO specialist.
The colts i believe tried this in the playoffs, signing former cowboys kicker Jose Cortez to do kickoffs. I don't think it is realistic to get a guy like Mare but I am not against the idea in principle.
good to see you didn't read my posts. I didn't say I wasn't giving Nugent any credit. I said the field position is an indicator of the kickoff team as a whole, not of Nugent. But let's keep giving excuses like "Westhoff tells kickers to kick to spots while other kickers don't." That's simply not true. No kicker in the league, including Rackers, simply kicks straight ahead every time. Kickers get instructions from the coaches in different situations. Nugent is a below-average kickoff man. Period. No amount of fact-twisting is going to change that fact.
