Wouldn't have mattered in the slightest. You want to know who doesn't need to drag his ass to the combine? Bain. Combine is a fucking joke. Like I need FOOTBALL players to run around in straight lines, jump up and down et. al. The dumbest goddamn thing I've ever heard of. Do you know how you get good football players on your team? Members of the worst scouting department in the NFL, the NY Jets, drag their lazy useless asses to college football stadiums to actually WATCH these guys play FOOTBALL! Not lift fucking weights in a weight room or jump up and down waving at little plastic markers. Hey, you want to have a one stop shop to find out about their medical, mental makeup and conduct interviews then have at it. Call it the NFL "Cattle Call" or something. Everything and anything to do with the combine, outside those three things are a waste of time. Full stop. I know too many men, personally, who've attended that joke of an event and it's exactly that, a JOKE. Sure as hell hasn't benefited the NY Jets now has it? I know a certain Colts team that wishes they could undo their #1 QB draft pick from a couple years ago, that's for sure.
Film is the true way to break down a player. The eye in the sky just don’t lie”. I prefer it over live when breaking down opponents.. The only thing about live is you can truly see size and explosiveness for certain positions. Now, for QBs I feel live is how you can really see the velocity. Sounds crazy but there is an actual sound you can hear when a strong arm QB rips it that’s unmistakable. However, film shows you all the decision making, pocket presence, vision, accuracy, awareness and most of all FBI. Bottom line you are correct, you need both to be a successful scout and the Jets staff need to be better at their jobs. I can’t remember the last time we drafted a day 3 guy that turned into a pro bowler like so many of these successful teams land. That’s on the scouts.
This x Infiniti! 1000%! Bain has nothing left to prove. Throw that silly short arm shit out the window. The guy was THE most impactful defensive player in the country, period. Playing against all the best teams and players who he will again be competing against at the next level on Sundays. Setting himself up for a smooth transition into the pros. I love how a guy dominates the best competition in the country (and not one D player in the country did it more than Bain) and yet the more time that passes by from the actual games, the more questions come up. That's called the pocket pinball, internet expert syndrome. The large majority of these opinions are useless out there. As I've already stated, the combine and all the post-season bowl games are for guys who DID NOT do it consistently when the lights were brightest. That is the anti-Bain. It's like the inverse of how real life works. Killing it on the field is by far the most important metric. All this other no pad, high jump bs is just that, total malarkey! No, I don't want Reese who completely disappeared for half of the entire season at OSU with lottery defenders surrounding him all over. That is a huge red flag and a pass. I like Bailey but he's not nearly as violent or impactful as Bain across the D line. And Bain's hands and first step are ridiculous and we saw what he did against the best team in the country this year when he singlehandedly dominated that first half and had a great game. When you get a guy who has a relentless motor like Bain with some sick intangibles like first step and elite hand usage and did it against the best, you take him and don't look back. The Jets need plug and play Day 1 starters like him more than anything.
The combine is not a joke, you just have no idea what it is you’re looking for there. The way it’s covered by media and amateurs is a joke, however, because they don’t know what they’re looking for either.
My favorite is when an entire league full of professionals sees the value in things while guys on the internet say it’s stupid and doesn’t matter.
We'll see what happens at the combine but can see the Jets trade back a few and look at Tate or Downs. Fun time of year.
You could not be more wrong. To say that if a player played well in college then there's nothing else to talk about has got to be one of the dumbest things I've seen on the internet, and the internet is a dumb place. Everyone knows how many good and great college players couldnt hack it in the nfl, and the entire point is to figure out why that is and who is next. Good grief man
I’ll start this by stating I agree fully that Reese would be a huge mistake at 2. Bain is going to be a very good football player in the NFL, of that I have no doubt. He’s a 3 down player that’s stout against the run, but he’s not a prolific pass rusher. He’s gonna get 6-8 sacks a year in my opinion, with a year here or there where he might break over 10 sacks. A perfect player comp for him would be Shaun Ellis. Normally I would say that type of performance is not worthy of the #2 overall, but reality is I don’t see any other player that is either. Reese is a hard pass. Downs and Tate I feel are similar to Bain in that I’m certain they’ll have solid careers but not elite. It’s just our luck to have a high pick with no one really worthy of it available.
Clearly reading comprehension eluded you throughout your entire, piss poor education. You don't even know how to understand what I said and completely misinterpreted it. I said the best, most dominant defensive player in the country which is way different than your dopey dumbing down of what I said. Nuance is a beautiful thing and clearly that went right over your head too. What is beyond dumb is thinking that such a proven commodity needs such an arbitrary evaluation to either put them in the running for a top 5 pick or remove them entirely. That is fool's gold and how GM's get fired. Anyone who bases their evaluation criteria so heavily on a postseason boondoggle like the NFL combine clearly knows nothing about the sport. Especially when that prospect has showed out against the best teams and comp in the country. But tell me who you think dominated from the defensive side of the ball against the best consistently moreso than Bain. I'll be waiting because any answer you provide will be wrong because no one showed out like him all season long against the best. Stick to your postseason combines, meaningless bowl games, and internet experts who don't know jackshit. Just don't watch the games because clearly your ability to evaluate talent at anything other than ball washing is in the dumpster and it shows.
Shaun Ellis was never as twitchy or as explosive as Bain. I hear you on the assessment and it's fair but I just think people are underselling Bain too much. Bain wasn't that dominant against everyone this year for no good reason. I mean the whole world game planned for the guy and he still dominated most of the season. His elite strengths include explosive first step and twitchy which Ellis was neither. Ellis was a good player for sure but Bain is a different type of prospect. He also can play multiple D line positions in addition to being an explosive edge rusher. To me, he's the clear #2 pick.
Have either of you participated in the combine? Have either of you BEEN to the combine? I have... I double down on what I said. On Bain, I do not find what some of you are saying about this kid ridiculous...I find it LAUGHABLE. He beat the shit out of EVERYONE he touched this season. Just like Fernando Mendoza beat the shit out of everyone he faced this season. It's all perspective. Yet, EVERYONE is riding Mendoza's "jock" to the 1st pick in the draft yet Bain, who is head and shoulders above Mendoza when compared, in position, with his peers is not considered the hands down consensus next pick? Now, all the idiots are stuck on stupid with the two most hated words in my vocabulary, potential and upside. BOTH of which will get a GM fired so fast it'll make their heads spin. If you are Seattle, New England, Kansas City, San Francisco, you can draft on POTENTIAL all day long. When you are Cleveland, Las Vegas, the Jets...you better put people on the field, right damn now, who you know will stomp the piss out of whomever the moment their gnarly toes hit the grass. Full fucking stop. I don't give 2 shits what Reese et. all MIGHT be able to do. What I DO care about is what they CAN do. Right now. With Bain, I feel we KNOW that, along with the other 31 teams. Personally, I can draft Bain, insert him and, outside of injury, I know what I'm going to get for the next decade. I can focus on other positions. Just my opinion but I feel I have enough knowledge, experience and insight that I'll stick to my opinion.
Brother, first things first, calm down. It's barely noon. Second, I've been to the combine plenty, I worked at it. I am very well aware of what teams are looking for there and as much as I hate to agree with the troll... what the media and content creators present the combine to be is not at all what it is. It's become commercialized and a place to gather hours upon hours of content. The football decision-makers don't give two shits about that. I promise measurables mean something to the people that make the decisions especially at 2 overall. Bain obviously destroyed everyone but he did it with power and when you have short arms, you need to rely on a lot more than power at the NFL level. Does he have that? People like you and me can give opinions but they aren't anywhere near as informed as the people that are watching his workouts and looking at his data.
Sorry, I get too worked up, especially the combine. Sorry, it brings back nightmares. Ce la vie... I just think that we've entered this "time" in existence where people stop listening to their "eyes" and find things to explain away reality. Shit, the ENTIRE current govt. administration LIVES on this shit. Don't believe your eyes or lived experience, believe what I'm TELLING you...while you are starving to death, can't put gas in your vehicle and meeting your "rent" payment means not doing either of the two aforementioned tasks. I keep reading all these different "view points" yet, I feel, no one has learned from the Zach Wilsons, Vernon Gholstons, Anthony Richardsons, Trey Lance's. Folks STILL throw out lived reality for what "might be" based on an event that does NOT take into account; there are players, on the opposite side of the ball, that are trying to mitigate all those ridiculous measurables. The reason why I harp on Bain is because he has dominated. The same players that are going to get drafted to other teams, yeah, he's kicked their asses. In so much as his position anyway. Outside of a handful of tackles, already in the NFL, I see him continuing to dominate his peers and, when he does come up against those guys, already in the NFL, I suspect he'll hold his own there. I don't know how to explain it. What I do know is this, the one thing the NY Jets are better at, than every other team in the league, is drafting the wrong players. Outside of the OBVIOUS picks, Sauce, Wilson, Pennington, Q...this team, somehow, finds a way to draft the worst possible players while skipping/ignoring players that end up as Hof'ers or, at the very least, perennial all pro caliber. <sigh>
I hear what you're saying but there are people across all industries that do their job everyday for years and are still not very good at it. So just because they do it all day doesn't automatically mean that they're "better" at it. Regarding Bain, if his whole game was predicated on power then yeah I'd be a little concerned about the arm length. However his biggest strengths are his elite first step, violent hand usage, and nonstop motor. So I think the arm concern isn't nearly as much of a thing as people want to make it out to be based on what his true elite skillset is especially when you factor in his on-field dominance.
All good. The Jets work all of us up. Again I don't think that the combine is as useless as you make it out to be. We're talking about the number 2 overall pick. We're going to have 3 guys that can make huge impacts on the defense immediately. All 3 could be elite, all 3 could bust. Wouldn't you want to have the most data available to you? I don't think highlighting a bunch of busts is a good measuring stick. Wilson, yes. Richardson and Lance were already projected to be top QBs taken before the combine, the combine didn't change that. And again to me that's apples and oranges. We're talking about defensive players at 2 overall, not QBs that could go in the top 5. All I'm saying is the combine has a purpose. In no way am I advocating for a decision to be made based off what happens at the combine. But when you have three guys this close in skill level with similar ceilings, you should absolutely want all information available to help make a choice. Hand usage and motor can be stymied by NFL-caliber OL. That's why I get worried about him. There was a huge stretch of games in the middle of the season where Bain completely disappeared. From weeks 3-11 he had 1.5 sacks, 4.5 TFL and 23 tackles. That's basically non-existent. Just like with Reese I'm aware game situations can affect those numbers and the numbers don't always translate to tape but if we're gonna do that for Reese we're definitely gonna do it for Bain too when you consider the measurables being a factor in the concerns.
First step cannot be. That's something you either have or don't, and Bain has one of the best in years. Also, he had the most pressures in all of FBS so obviously that needs to be a part of that overall stat line story. Finally, Bain, to me, during games looks way more impactful on an every down basis than Reese. Are there some plays he's not involved? Sure. But more often then not, he's disrupting the offense in one way or the other. I can't pass on someone as impactful as that.
I'm in no way denying the guy's college tape. He was dominant. I do have concerns with how that translates because of the measurables. It could mean absolutely nothing a la Parsons or Hutchinson but I can't in good conscience assume the absolute best case scenario.
