Yes, that's what I mean. If YOU hire non minority DC let's say, and he becomes head coach after 2 years, you get nothing. If for the same DC position you hire minority coach, and he gets hired later as a HC for another team, you get 3d round pick. Which means if you need a DC, and two coaches are close, minority and not, it makes sense to get a minority, as it can get you a 3d round pick in the future if you lose him, while the other one won't.
Which head coaches has the NFL forced on any team? Which teams have been weakened by the Rooney Rule? How has it worsened the NFL's product?
This argument should be very far down on the list of reasons to hire any coach, regardless of their race, religion or ethnicity. It's obviously about the best available candidates first before even considering this line of thinking of a 3rd rd draft pick simply for hiring a minority coach.
You're joking right? minority /mə-nôr′ĭ-tē, -nŏr′-, mī-/ noun The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole. A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes. A racial, religious, political, national, or other group thought to be different from the larger group of which it is part.
I think it's a legitimate discussion and no one has made any derogatory comments since barf got his vacation. Don't censor us just to make your job easier
This now has its own thread. Agreed. This is a legitimate discussion hence I created this new thread.
No - I'm not kidding at all. If you believe any statute simply using the term "minority" would stand up in any court of law you are boldly mistaken. The statute, law, or in this case rule must be defined for the purposes of enforcement in that specific application; a simple dictionary definition is far too vague. Here, the NFL has created its own court and must follow the same type of precision lest they be taken to a real court. I also find it revealing that the NFL uses "ethnic" and "diverse" in its discussion of the Rooney Rule - both terms which do not even appear in the definition you cite. It also uses the term "thought" without any explanation of by whom. Such "simple" terms may satisfy some casual observers but cannot be used to benefit or penalize any entity.
@Ralebird does bring up a good point about it not being 100% clear. For example, I only knew that Saleh qualified because the League declared that during his hiring process. But otherwise even if we look at your own bolded statement: "A racial, religious, political, national, or other group thought to be different from the larger group of which it is part", does that mean for example that any Muslim, Jew, Mormon, Libertarian, Green Party affiliate, Swedish second generation, Egyptian Christian descendant, Gay, immigrant, all will fit Rooney rule? I know these cases are rare, but I do see RB's point that it's not clear and basically for non obvious cases League just decides. Which is fine by me, since these cases are rare, but the point that it is not particularly clear is valid also.
Cat? Could you distinguish a Himalayan from a Bengal if there wasn't a precise definition of each available in the annals of biology?
"The Rooney Rule aims to increase the number of minorities hired in head coach, general manager, and executive positions" -NFL.com https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/inclusion/the-rooney-rule/
You made a goofy statement about teams being forced who to hire and another about the rule weakening teams - why not support your claims by explaining where and when either has happened rather than just cutting and pasting something anyone interested has already seen many times, even in this discussion? Even a bargain basement AI bot could do better than you have.
I would argue that the Krafts wormed their way out of the Rooney Rule to get Vrabel. They keep Mayo hostage for a few years, set him up to fail by not signing FAs with a 100 mil cap space available, and then send him packing after one year. All this to get the guy that they probably wanted a year ago, but couldn't because it would make them look bad by not signing Mayo. And if you look at the expediency of the two minority coaches that they interviewed recently, it makes it all that obvious. Mayo was their first black coach, but did they really want him for such a crucial role? Hmm? I would say that they used him to squirm out of the Rooney Rule.
To me, it's pretty obvious they are talking about ethnicity and race, rather than politics / religion / sexuality. I don't think if a head coach came out as atheist that they would suddenly be considered for the Rooney rule. I understand it not being clear and that there are some fuzzy lines, but I suspect that most people understand what is meant by it. I also think many are "not understanding" it on purpose because they don't like it. "Immigrant" =/= minority, many immigrants have European decent like the majority of US citizens. You could technically say that people whose favorite color is yellow are minorities if you look at it in that lens, but this is about ethnicity/race. Nobody's like, "Well this guy is from Scotland, so he's a minority since most US citizens aren't from Scotland."
Have you ever heard the expression "the devil is in the details"? Courthouses are full of civil cases every day because of how true that is. The NFL has plenty of paraphrasing and references to the Rooney Rule, but they have never shown the rule itself as written. This is quite similar to how they handled the contract provisions about players involved in illegal or immoral activity. The difference there is that rule became part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement which is in the public domain. For the record, the only problem I have with the Rooney Rule is exactly what is shown in this thread - everybody has their own specific interpretation of it beyond what "most people understand" it to be. You begin your statement here by saying what you believe is "obvious" in using "ethnicity and race" as components of the rule but disregarding "sexuality" as a component - does that mean in your eyes that teams are permitted to discriminate against someone from the LGBT community? And where is the line drawn between "sexuality" and "gender" which is specifically noted in the rule? Protections for "women" are specifically noted in NFL discussion.
The league mandate uses the term "ethnic or racial minority." It was expanded in 2022 to include "female" in its language. "The coach can be "a female or a member of an ethnic or racial minority" So sex, but not sexual orientation, or religion or favorite color or up for interpretation, etc....Things I'm seeing in this thread. NFL says all teams must add minority offensive coach, expands Rooney Rule to include women - ESPN
I say it's obvious because the purpose of the rule was to increase racial diversity. Just because LGBT might not fall under the Rooney Rule, doesn't mean that people should be allowed to discriminate. Apparently women were added to the rule, but I don't think sexual orientation is and I don't think the rule is confusing at all.
