If Ben Johnson's OC is any good, he will be promoted internally after Ben surely leaves this cycle. And if not, then we are doing the same thing again: 1st time defensive HC and 1st time OC who may or may not be good. And that defensive HC btw hasn't really had great defense in 4 years as a DC. To me this is basically repeating history and actually doing it worse than that. This guy Rivera came to interview. Maybe we can bring him as an experienced DC? Or someone else with experience for a DC. Then someone like Ben, Monken, Brady, or Liam can be a HC and run the offense. That would be something different. I mean we failed hiring a fired HC before, we failed a DC, why not try a proven good OC as a HC now? I am not sure doing the same shit that failed and expecting different result is the best idea. Especially in the offense oriented league the way NFL is today.
I like the concept. Have to say however, I lean towards a HC who has done it before. I suppose i lean towards Flores, who i think had his opportunity cut short and could bounce back in a big way. he's also from these parts and will honestly despise Miami and relish facing them twice per season. He and I have that in common.
I'll admit what I'm about to say is kinda dumb but the Jets are just an overall terrible vibes franchise right now. Flores is a great defensive mind but just feels like another bad vibes guy.
Flores is where I’m at. He has prior experience, from the area and like you said will have built in motivation to destroy the fish twice a year. He the only one of the retread options that wasn’t ultimately released from their last HC job for poor performance. He was essentially let go because he was too mean. I can work with that.
Same he had 2 winning seasons and his one losing season was expected to be historically one of the worst teams in NFL history and won 5 games. I don't think Vrabel is coming here. I would take Vrabel or Flores but I like Flores slightly more and think it's likelier he comes here than Vrabel does.
but it’s SO Jets to hire a first time defensive HC…we’ve done it OVER and OVER and OVER…Mangini, Rex, Bowles, Saleh… Not a SINGLE ONE WORKED So why would we keep doing the same shit over and over??? I HATE Woody I get these are only rumors and can’t believe anything you hear at this time as no one will show their cards really but I just hate the way this is going. First off, we should be going GM first and let him lead the HC search. And so far, the candidates we’ve heard linked are Vrabel, Rivera, and now Glenn. NONE of these guys would be my first choice. NONE. Rivera wouldn’t even be on my interview list. Glenn I just think we’ve tried this before and failed every single time. I like the guy, but not as our HC. Vrabel I’m 50/50 on…wouldn’t cause me to throw up in my mouth right away, but also wouldn’t wow me and get me excited either. I’d be way more excited, if it’s going to be a first time coordinator type, to see us interview Johnson, Monken, etc…guys like that. It’s a crap shoot either way but I’m just so tired of having such a shitty offense year in year out and having an HC who just does not know how to fix it or what to do.
Don't forget Al Groh and Herm Edwards. The only coaches that Woody has hired have been first time HCs from the defensive side of the ball. The only one that broke that mold during Woody's time as the owner was Gase, a process that was led more by Christopher Johnson than Woody. Literally every other HC that the Jets have hired during this time were first time coaches with a defensive background. And the results, with the exception of Rex, have been exactly the same.
Yes. It is one thing for us miserable fucks on a message board to shoot the shit over potential coaches, but for a professional team to be operated in a manner in which they don't seem to grasp "hire GM then hire coach" is infuriating.
Do you define "worked" as having won a Super Bowl? Because if you do, your hiring pool is going to be claustrophobic.
No…I define “worked” as winning more games than losing…none of those guys have done that. We have had shitty teams most years, outside of a couple good years with Rex, one division championship with Herm where we had a three way tie for first place with the Pats and Dolphins I think, so hardly a decisive division win, and one good year with Fitzmagic where we reverted back to form in the last game and missed the playoffs. That’s it. So yeah, none of them “worked”
Well, I disagree. I thought going to the AFC Championship game two years in a row (with the worst QB in the league) "worked." I thought Mangini having the best team in the league until his QB tore his bicep in his throwing arm "worked." I agree that Bowles and Salah sucked; but it had nothing to do with them being former-defensive coordinators. You left out Gase ... what side of the ball did he coach?
There is no way any of these coaches were successful. Yes, they had some successful seasons. There were some successful stretches. But overall, like @Jets79 said, a losing record and a lot more failed seasons than good ones. I get it that the bar is so low, this may not be viewed as a failure, but objectively all of these coaches have failed - there was simply no sustained success. Gase to me was the hire where Chris actually had the right idea - a brilliant offensive guy - but the way he went about it was in a completely moronic way. If you want to hire an offensive genius, you do not hire a guy who is coming off 31st rated offense in the League. That is just idiocy at its peak. Look at the last 4 years of Gase offenses (rated in yards/points) before Chris hired him: 21/23, 24/27, 25/26, 31/26. So, yeah, Gase may have been on the offensive side of the ball, but he was BAD at it. The idea is to hire a guy who is GOOD at it. And that's Ben Johnson, Monken, Coen, or even Brady. Then you can get an experienced DC to run defense. In fact with Gase we actually had a decent defense for the most part, it's the offense that sucked, like it did in Miami and Chicago under him before.
I understand that there are only 30 HC jobs, but if someone accepted the "opportunity" to be at the mercy of Woody and his sons, I would wonder what flaws that person possessed so the only HC position he could get is with the Jets.
There are multiple ways to win Gase was OC of the highest scoring team in history by the way so it’s incorrect to say he was bad at it before the Jets hired him
That was 5 years before though. And when he didn't have prime Peyton the next 4 years he was bad. It's like saying Hackett would be a good hire right now for a HC somewhere, because he had great offense with prime Rodgers 4 years ago, and completely ignore what he did recently. You can't just ignore last 4 years like that. Hiring Gase was hiring an offensive guy who was bad at running the offense. There is really no other way to put it unless you think Hackett should be getting a HC job right now. But that's doesn't mean it is a bad idea to hire a guy who is good at running an offense.
Huh? Our offenses were atrocious during all but one of Bowles' years. They were atrocious during every one of Saleh's years. Our teams sucked during both of their tenures despite having good defenses. That's how important offense is. Let's dive deeper on Saleh since he's fresh in our memories. How many times did we hear from him that we just had to keep our opponents under 18 points to have a chance at winning? His philosophy of winning via defense and ball control hasn't been the philosophy of most of the successful teams for multiple decades now. Bowles and Saleh being former defensive coordinators had a ton to do with why they sucked as head coaches. You cannot win consistently without a good offense. Regarding Gase being a bad head coach - he didn't produce good offenses with us. He didn't even produce good offenses with Miami. He was a braindead hire both due to his personality and the fact that he wasn't even good at the thing he was supposedly good at. Gase being a bad hire doesn't change the fact that generally, the best thing to do is hire a creative, innovative, young guy from an offensive background. Doing that requires having an owner with a brain unfortunately. Now, just because that is the ideal type of coach to hire, doesn't mean it's the only way to do it well. There are plenty of successful coaches who don't have offensive backgrounds.
I give Manning most of the credit for those Denver offenses. They were 2nd in the league in PPG the year before Gase became OC. Manning was also the closest thing the NFL has ever had to a player coordinator.
That's the biggest concern with Joe Brady - when someone has a high level QB like that, are we sure he would be good without that guy? With Gase we have 4 year proof after he left Denver that he was bad. Hiring him was a moronic move, and he should have been fired after 1 year when our offense went to shit with him, while Tannehill flourished without him. Joe Brady is a different story, but there is some Gase caution tale there when you pick off an OC from the team with elite QB. I would still take a chance on the guy, but thinking Coen, Monken, and Ben Johnson may be a bit safer. Either way, there are enough of bright offensive guys available this year, where we do not have to go defensive route, which has failed for us time and time again.
