JD was a top candidate on the market, and he took the job in part because of his belief in Gase. Even supported him a whole second year while watching Darnolds value evaporate with every hit. Tearing down and supporting Gase while also saying the main goal is to support the investment in Darnold. It was red flags 1 and 2 for me. set the stage for this whole disaster.
Two completely independent roles. I don’t believe a HC should report to a GM. It’s an inherent conflict of interest imo. Vrabel would be a great hire. The problem is Woody is clueless, and doesn’t hire a strategic layer above those roles. Because he’s an idiot, he should hire a football board of directors of sorts for strategy. Some layer of strategy and decision making is needed that Woody is simply unfit for. And the GM shouldn’t be handed the keys for this, there needs to be accountability on the GM too so we don’t continue chasing tail.
Interesting take…I’m not in that same boat on your first point on HC vs GM being independent. And we have had that before as well with Rex and Idzik each reporting directly to Woody. I think that’s not the norm, and I don’t like it for one reason…it just gives each guy the excuse to point the finger at the other. The HC can say “hey, our GM gets us shit players so it’s not my fault we lose” while the GM can say “hey, I get great players and our HC can’t coach them to wins”. If you have a smart football minded owner, that can work because that owner knows his shit and can call bullshit to one guy or the other. For us, that’s not the case. Woody has no clue and just seems to listen to whomever gets in his ear first or loudest. I’m not sure why you think the HC reporting to the GM is a conflict of interest? I think that actually serves to align the interests…if the GM picks the HC then the GM is motivated to pick a good one and hold him up instead of backstabbing him, because the HC choice is on him. So not sure where you are seeing a conflict? The roles are not independent…those two people need to be in synch. The GM needs to know what type of players the coach wants and then needs to go out and get them. They need to work hand in hand. On the other hand, I think the more common approach is that the GM picks the HC and the HC reports to the GM. That way if shit goes badly, the GM owns it. Like JD couldn’t point the finger at Saleh because shit, he hired Saleh! I know there are some cases where the HC is the main guy and the GM reports to the HC (either explicitly or implicitly)…I think it was like that with Belichick. But I think that’s the more rare case. So for us, I would absolutely go with the GM running the show, including picking the HC because I think Woody is a dumbass fucking imbecile and wouldn’t know squat when the GM and HC come to him talking about who’s right and who’s wrong
I have been 100% on board with this concept since day one. We need to isolate Woody. He should set the overarching goals and expectations and let the decision making for implementation to someone else. Stay out of the details.
He was never a top candidate on the market. If he was, he wouldn't have taken the Jets job. He was the Anna Delvey of GMs.
Should and did are two different things.... He hasnt, so essentially HC reports to the clueless idiot
I’m curious, what is the typical reporting relationship between HC and GM for top running organizations, successful year after year. Say the Steelers, the Chiefs, SF, Baltimore, now Detroit, Buffalo, even the Rams. Is there a common model?
33rd Team was hired to identify and screen candidates for both positions, not sure where you got the idea that one will precede the other. There's a whole other thread about that. GM interviews are underway and now the rumor mill is confirming Vrabel is being considered for the HC position - wow, what a surprise. I agree with you that ideally the GM would be on board first and will have some input into selecting the coach. I'd rather have one guy reporting to Johnson than have two who were not on the same page on day one.
Jets back asswards as usual. The GM should be the focus and let him (or her) pick whomever they want as coach
Yes I’m paranoid because I have less than zero confidence in Woody. I believe there has to be a lot of synergy between the two interviews. The GM and HC need to work hand in glove. They must be confortable with each other capabilities to do the entire job right. Call me crazy. But the idea of one, never mind two people reporting directly to the Johnson circus family terrifies me. Latest news about his kids, if true is absolute laughable circus nonsense.
Same here Plus we tried this already with the Idzik, Rex, Bowles fiasco. It doesn’t work. Different agendas and when they don’t line up, there is chaos. And Woody isn’t qualified to have even one of these roles reporting to him, let alone two. That would be a fucking disaster. And yeah, that bullshit with the kids, I’m sure it’s true. We need to start flying banners just aimed directly at Woody and family…embarrass them as much as possible. I saw in one of the articles that they released a statement basically denying these reported claims and calling them laughable…yah ok…sorry not buying any of that This is a circus and shitshow in the worst possible way Only hope is that we luck into a strong GM who has the stones to stand up to Woody and tell him to fuck off and let him run the team…I thought JD was that guy when he held out for his longer contract but he was beaten down … can’t imagine what it would feel like to come to the owner with a trade and then have him throw out Madden rankings as part of the argument against the trade. Fucking ridiculous and I’m sure it’s true…
After that article I just read about the Madden scoring rating you can basically resign yourself to the fact that Foghorn Leghorn is going to be coaching this turd of a shit stain dumpster fire going forward. If you are a football man and actually sign on to this team you either have ZERO options elsewhere or you are a complete idiot.
Ending up with an experienced coach like Vrabel and an inexperienced, 1st time GM both equally reporting to Woody & Brick Johnson is not the answer that will have us right back here in last place looking for a new staff in 2-3 years
The only time I can remember them having a GM/HC situation that was a good working relationship was Rex and Tanny, but personnel ended up falling apart eventually anyway. Rex was able to work with someone else's roster. But the game changed on Rex and he didn't adapt.
Agree, lighting fire under Woody's ass like you suggest won't hurt, but JD WAS that guy. He failed for 5 years and should have been fired. Instead Woody like putz kept him and started meddling. Check this from Dick Chimney, same link I posted before: "Johnson, 77, has taken a more hands-on approach since the end of last season in both personnel and contract matters." That's 5 years after he hired him and having a losing year every single time. For 5 years there was no meddling. I think there is hope Woody stumbles into someone who will get a chance to succeed without meddling for a long time like JD did. We just need to hit on that guy. Easier said than done, but with Spielman involved I am not losing hope. Now, if we end up with Vrabel, I do think the team will be a lot better. He is a solid defensive coach. And he does have a good track record of finding good OCs. He did find MLF, he did find Smith. So, we might get better short term. But ultimately he will only go as far as the OC he finds. And the last one got him fired because it is not easy to do. Much easier to find a DC. So I am hoping we can get an offensive coach this time. Not that I would be crushed with Vrabel, but much preferred someone like Ben Johnson, Monken, Brady, etc...
